FROM OUR HOME TO YOURS w/ Nancy Campbell

PODCAST 92: THE CHALLENGE OF HAVING A BABY OUT OF WEDLOCK

Rocky Barrett: Welcome to the podcast, From Our Home to Yours, with Nancy Campbell, founder and publisher of Above Rubies.

Nancy Campbell: Hello ladies! Well, we have another exciting episode for you today. I’m going to introduce to you a lovely friend of mine. Her name is Jennie Ruppel.

Jennie has recently come to live nearby here. In fact, you’re really part of the community now, aren’t you? We live here on the hilltop. You’re kind of just on the side of the hilltop, aren’t you?

Jennie Ruppel: Yes, yes!

NC: It’s so exciting! They’re living here now, and they’ve actually started building on another side of the hilltop. That’s so wonderful!

Jennie and her husband, Will, have eleven children, five who are biological and six who are adopted from Ethiopia. Will, her husband, was in the navy for so many years, ten years doing hospital administration and then ten years working on nuclear reactors on the submarines.

Now they’ve come to Tennessee and Will is the senior manager at Trim Healthy Mama. They’re really part of us all here in Trim Healthy Mama and in the church family.

And in just “family” because now their eldest son, Trae is courting Sam and Serene’s daughter, Chalice. So we’re really getting to be family, aren’t we?

JR: Yes, it’s so exciting!

NC: It is amazing. I was just counting up the other day and counted six courting couples in our family. Can you believe that?

JR: Amazing!

NC: It is so exciting! Anyway, you have lived quite a bit around the whole of the nation, haven’t you?

JR: Yes, yes, we have. It happens with the navy.

NC: Yes, but now I think you’ll be settled, won’t you?

JR: That is what we are hoping and praying. We’ll see what God does.

NC: Well recently, Will and Jennie and their little children went up to Washington D.C. to be part of the March for Life. When they came back and shared about it, it was just so thrilling to hear about it  that I said to Jennie, “You have got to come and share this with all the ladies.”

So tell us about it! Tell us about how you even got to go.

JR: It actually was in a church service here on the hilltop. One of the young men was speaking about us being proactive in the community and reaching people with the Gospel and he said something about the March for Life in January.

Will looked at me and I looked at him and we both just immediately knew that God was asking us to go and be a part of this.

It took a couple of weeks of figuring the logistics with children and what not, but we were able to go with three of our youngest children and spend four or five days.

NC: You actually had a vision to take a busload full, didn’t you?

JR: We did, yes, yes.

NC: But unfortunately it was the time where Serene and Sam and others were in Israel and other family members were everywhere.

But we really would have loved to do that.

JR: Yes, I think it would be very exciting. That was one thing that we saw was that there were thousands and thousands of teenagers and young adults. High schools and colleges were represented.

We would love to come with a group from the hilltop and Above Rubies and just be there and experience that with them.

NC: Wouldn’t it be wonderful if just families everywhere could gather a few families and all the children could get a bus and go for next year? The more people who can be there the more powerful it is.

Tell us just what it was like!

JR: It absolutely surpassed all of our expectations. We really did not know what to expect. We did not know what God had in store for us. As usual, God, of course was far above our thinking and what we were hoping for.

It was just so powerful and life changing to be gathered with thousands and thousands to stand for life.

Of course two days before, the President announces unexpectedly that he’s going to come and speak. That, of course, was another added blessing to be there and hear him speak in person.

It was also a blessing to see so many young people in this generation that are Pro-life, are Pro-family, and watch them speak out in love with courage and boldness.

It was very encouraging to us, as parents, and also very challenging that this needs to be a fight that we’re a part of every day in one form or fashion.

NC: How did you get along with your little children, taking them? Did that work out well?

JR: It did, it did. We actually decided to fly so we flew with our 14 -year-old daughter, Grace, and with our two-year-old son, Cade, and our one-year-old daughter, Hadley.

It was their first time to fly. They absolutely enjoyed the experience and did very, very well.

It was very interesting being in Washington D.C. because, of course, we’re used to being surrounded by children and young people and there seemed to be a void of little people in the city. We oftentimes got smiles and long looks as we walked through D.C. with babies in toe. But it went very, very well to have our children.

I would encourage parents to bring even your smaller children and allow them to experience that in that atmosphere.

NC: Yes, so it was not too difficult to take little ones?

JR: No, no it was fun! It was fun!

NC: I think that’s so great because that’s what it’s all about.

JR: Yes, that’s what we’re there for.

NC: The more children that can be there, that’s more the family thing.

JR: Absolutely. So many of the young people were drawn to our family to talk with the babies and interact with them and experience what it was like to be there with them and that’s so important for that to be there.

NC: What was it like when President Trump spoke? I mean, I heard it; it was unbelievable! What was it like when you were there?

JR: It was so profoundly powerful. We did not know, again, what to expect. We had no idea what he would say but he just unabashedly stood for life, stood for the fact that ALL life is created in the image of God. He spoke about the sanctity of life and the sanctity of family. He spoke about family.

The excitement and the joy that was there was almost palpable. To see the most powerful person in the world, really, stand up for life was such a huge encouragement and blessing.

NC: Isn’t it amazing? This was, I believe, the 47th March for Life and this was the first President that has ever spoken at one. It’s amazing, isn’t it, how this president is standing for life, for righteousness, for the evangelical church, for Israel, for everything that is righteous. I mean we never expected that when he first appeared on the scene as, you know, a real worldly and fleshly man.

But God is doing something. It is God. I think, we as God’s people, have to acknowledge this and keep praying. I know it is the prayers of God’s people and we must keep praying.

Because we couldn’t get to the March for Life, we were all gathered as a family one evening and so we put it up on our big screen. Downstairs we have a big screen and so we put him up there. We could see him, and we listened. It was so powerful. We were all standing up and clapping even if we were only in our own home!

But I thought I would print off some snippets of his speech because maybe you didn’t hear it, or you missed out. I believe we need to hear what he said. I mean, I couldn’t have said it better myself.

NC: To come from the man who is leading our nation, this is unprecedented, and it is so powerful.

Let me read a few little bits from it. He begins:

“It is my profound honor to be the first president in history to attend the March for Life. We are here for a very simple reason: to defend the right of every child, born and unborn, to fulfill their God-given potential.

“. . . All of us here understand an eternal truth: Every child is a precious and sacred gift from God. Together, we must protect, cherish, and defend the dignity and the sanctity of every human life.

“When we see the image of a baby in the womb, we glimpse the majesty of God's creation. When we hold a newborn in our arms, we know the endless love that each child brings to a family. When we watch a child grow, we see the splendor that radiates from each human soul. One life changes the world . . . As the Bible tells us, each person is wonderfully made.

“. . . Sadly, the far left is working to erase our God-given rights, shut down faith-based charities, ban religious leaders from the public square, and silence Americans who believe in the sanctity of life. They are coming after me because I am fighting for you and we are fighting for those who have no voice. . . . Together, we are the voice for the voiceless.

“Nearly every top Democrat in congress now supports taxpayer-funded abortion all the way up until the moment of birth. Last year, lawmakers in New York cheered with delight upon the passage of legislation that would allow a baby to be ripped from the mother's womb right up until delivery. . . .  The governor stated that he would execute a baby after birth. Senate Democrats even blocked legislation that would give medical care to babies who survive attempted abortions.

“. . . To all the moms here today, we celebrate you and we declare that mothers are heroes. Your strength, devotion, and drive are what powers our nation. Because of you, our country has been blessed with amazing souls who have changed the course of human history.

“We cannot know what our citizens yet unborn will achieve. The dreams they will imagine. The masterpieces they will create. The discoveries they will make. But we know this: every life brings love into this world. Every child brings joy to a family. Every person is worth protecting.

“And above all, we know that every human soul is divine and every human life, born and unborn, is made in the holy image of Almighty God. Together, we will defend this truth all across our magnificent land. We will set free the dreams of our people. And with determined hope, we look forward to all of the blessings that will come from the beauty, talent, purpose, nobility, and grace of every American child.”

Well, that was just a few snippets from his speech.

All I can say is Amen. I hope you are saying Amen also! It is certainly powerful.

JR: Yes, yes, it was beautiful. It was powerful. It was hard to express the emotion and people’s response back to him as we all just confirmed in unity, all of God’s people, all different denominations represented there.

He was speaking to us all as Americans but there at the rally, everyone just, in such unity, responded with an absolute AMEN.

NC: Praise the Lord!

I think it was especially meaningful to you, too, Jennie, because you have experienced personally what many, many young people experience when they face the fact that they have life in their womb but it’s out of wedlock, it’s not convenient and they don’t know what they can do.

Tell us your story.

JR: Yes, the Pro-life movement is very personal to me. I was 18 years old, just shortly out of high school and I became pregnant unexpectedly and unplanned, even though no baby is unplanned. God has planned every baby and every baby is wanted and of course God desperately wants every baby.

But I became pregnant at 18. My introduction to motherhood was sitting in a family practice office. The doctor walked in and said, “Well, I guess I must say congratulations to you because you’re pregnant.”

Without missing a beat, the next words out of his mouth were, “But if this is not what you had planned, we can take care of that for you.”

Just as quickly as he introduced me to motherhood, he also then introduced me to the idea of taking my child’s life.

NC: Absolute opposites!

JR: Yes, yes, and it was overwhelming and terrifying, and it was only by the grace of God and His mercy to my, at that point, unborn daughter (we now have a beautiful 22-year-old daughter) and myself. It was only by the grace of God that God took me out of that doctor’s office. I never really considered abortion but that was his response to that child in my womb.

NC: That seems to be the response that most young people get today

JR: Yes, absolutely. Going into a Pro-life rally there were many women there who held signs and wore T-shirts that said, “I regret my abortion.”

They were speaking up and saying that all the lies, all the deception that is spoken to young moms and fathers, is absolutely from the enemy. There is so much sadness, loss, and depression that follow abortions.

Many say that they are Pro-choice but in reality, what they say to you is that you have no choice. You can’t carry this baby. You will not be a good mother. You are not ready or equipped. You have no choice but to end or terminate this pregnancy.

We were saying, Pro-life is Pro-women and IS Pro-choice. You have choices: you can care for this child. God will give you the strength.

There is adoption. There are many loving parents who would love to adopt.

NC: Oh there are so many that are desperate!

JR: Yes, they are desperate for a child or a baby.

NC: I am thinking of our dear friend, Erin, who wants to adopt a child. She waited and waited, and she just said, “It’s impossible! I’m on this huge list and when will I ever get a baby?”

Now she is looking after a very special needs child who needs 24-hour care. Her first longing was to have a little baby, but she can’t get one. So many are being terminated.

JR: Which of course is rarely spoken to a young scared mom or dad. There are literally thousands and thousands of parents who would love to bring your child into their home and care for them.

So that was my introduction to motherhood: an offered abortion.

So when I stand beside other women who have made that choice and terminated pregnancies and then to see God healing and redeeming them and standing and saying, “This is not the option. They will tell you that is.”

It was just amazing. It was healing for me to go.

I feel like God is taking me back to that place and healing old wounds, because of course that doctor placed so many doubts and fears in my mind and heart as to whether or not I could mother her and be a good mother.

NC: You chose to keep her and what helped you to make that decision?

JR: Yes, we did. Absolutely God. I was Pro-life. Even sitting in that doctor’s office, I was Pro-life. My family stood with me and stood with my daughter.

I cannot say that the church I was attending stood with me, which was something that God has been speaking to me and impressing upon my heart.

It is actually something I want to talk about this morning to mothers and grandmothers and aunts, to say that the way that we respond to a mistake or a failure in our daughter’s or son’s life has a very profound impact on the decisions that they make.

There were several different speakers at the rally, in particularly at the youth rally, who discussed how many Christian young women are aborting their babies. Not because they want to or not because they believe abortion is the right answer but because they are terrified to go to Christian parents, to Christian pastors, or leadership and face what they are most likely going to receive which could be condemnation, judgment, and shame.

I just really wanted to discuss the idea of love and mercy that God has extended to us and do we extend it to our daughters and our sons when they have fallen?

When they are young people who you often hear, “They should have known better”? And yes, they should have known better, but we live in a fallen world and we sin and make mistakes.

Do we then extend mercy and grace to them in the same way that we would extend to an unbeliever coming to us? Or do we face the situation with judgment, frustration, and condemnation?

At this youth rally, the speaker was just discussing that there are many, many, many babies aborted by Christian young women. They even know pastors who have taken their daughters for abortions because they are scared to face their congregations.

NC: So their fear of man is bigger than their fear of God, and I think, too, their understanding of life.

In Deuteronomy 30 it talks about, “I set before you life and death.”

Every time this happens you have the choice: life or death. But it goes on to say, “But choose life.” We have to always choose life.

Now I have noticed this happens not only with a young person facing a pregnancy unplanned but I have so many mothers coming to me and they tell me they’re expecting their third, fourth, or maybe it’s even getting up to fifth or sixth baby.

They say, “I cannot tell my parents because they’re either going to tell us we’re crazy or get mad, or just want to have nothing to do with us.”

Can you believe this? And this, once again, is amongst Christian families— so called Christian families who, when someone shares that they are going to have another baby, THAT’S LIFE! That’s life, and they have a negative reaction. That is absolutely opposite to the Bible. It’s absolutely opposite to God’s heart because God is a God of life. When there is conception it is life from God no matter what.

I think of even examples in the Bible. I think of that man, he was a judge of Israel, Jephthah. He was ousted from his family. He was born to his father but maybe by a prostitute or someone else. All the other sons growing up in the family didn’t want him. He wasn’t worthy to be part of the family. They just told him to get out and live somewhere else.

He was cast out of the family because, well, the word in the Bible isn’t a very nice word, it is “bastard” and that’s how they looked upon it then.

Anyway, it’s interesting how the time came when Israel was in a dreadful place and enemies were after them and they needed someone. They needed a leader and someone who really could lead them in battle and bring victory to them and that anointing was upon Jephthah.

It wasn’t upon all the sons growing up in the family. It was on the outcast and so they brought him back. He had to say, “Okay, if you’re going to get me to do that will you really receive me?” and of course he led the Israelites in battle.

It’s interesting, isn’t it? God’s hand was on the outcast one. God’s hand is on every child, no matter what the situation is or the circumstances of how they were conceived.

As you were a young unwed mother and you were facing this pregnancy, what helped you to get through it?

JR: Really my family, and then just knowing, like you said, that God loves all life, that He will sustain us, that He will meet every need and just walking through that with Him.

NC: Yes, I think as you said, family. Even though we know that what wasn’t the right thing to happen, but there is life here!

JR: Yes, and it’s joy.

NC: We always choose life. We don’t have to wonder what to do. God told us what to do. WE CHOOSE LIFE!

JR: Right.

NC: So that’s the answer in any of these situations that we didn’t plan on, or our children didn’t plan them, but we always choose life.

JR: There is always such tremendous blessing to that choice. Whenever we choose life, whenever we stand with life there are things that come to us from God above that we never could have dreamed of, and of course our daughter is a perfect example of that.

NC: Yes, how could you even think of life without her?

JR: Absolutely, absolutely. Whenever we stand with life and choose life there’s so much blessing.

NC: Oh absolutely. Maybe we should read that Scripture in Deuteronomy. Of course there are so many Scriptures in the Word, but I do love this Scripture in Deuteronomy chapter 30.

It says here in verse 15: “See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil; In that I command thee this day to love the Lord thy God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judgments, that thou mayest live and multiply: and the Lord thy God shall bless thee in the land whither thou goest to possess it.”

We see that if we are walking in God’s commandments, we WILL choose life. God will bless us. It’s interesting how He says that you will live and multiply. Life is always to do with multiplication. God is not in the diminishing of life but in the adding and multiplying of life.

It goes down to verse 19: “I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: THEREFORE CHOOSE LIFE, that both thou and thy seed may live.”

Yes. It is so amazing. God’s way is life. When we choose life, we choose blessing, don’t we?

We go back to the very beginning when Adam named his wife Eve. He called her Eve, but in the Hebrew that word is chavvah and I’m sure you know what that means. It means: “Life giver.” That was the name of the very first woman. She was the prototype of all women to come.

This is who we are, dear mothers. We are life givers. To us it has been given the privilege to conceive life in our womb. Life that is life in the moment of conception, which grows in our womb by the hand of God Who is creating wondrously, miraculously, and marvelously this life in our womb.

This is who we are, and I think in these situations we’re talking about, because this whole situation of abortion, it’s facing life. Why do we have abortion? It’s because someone has conceived life. People who don’t understand the truth are going to end that life in death when they’re meant to choose life.

As you were saying, you saw so many there with T-shirts saying how they regretted the abortion. Why? It is because they chose the cursing. When we choose life, because that’s who we are as a woman, we choose blessing.

Even if it seems formidable and, “How could this happen,” and “My circumstances are impossible” – no, nothing is impossible!

God always works it out every time because it’s life and therefore because it’s life, it’s blessing, and it’s not only blessing for that baby to live, but it’s blessing for our body.

It’s who we are as a woman. We are a life-giver. It’s all about life. In fact, that word chavvah means: “life giver, life producer, life preserver, life spring.”

That word chavvah comes from some other root words. It’s kind of layered. I found four different root words from which chavvah actually comes. They all relate to chavvah.

The next word is chavvah again (same spelling, different word) and it means: “to live, to declare, to show.” We show. There is something about showing. We show to the world this life. We reveal our maternalness and our mothering anointing as we embrace this life and we are showing it to the world. That’s one of the meanings also.

Chavah is another one,  meaning: “the sustenance, the propagation of life.”

There is another word chava. They are all similar, but they are spelled differently, and this one is actually used in Daniel when he had to show the interpretations, but it is still a root word of chavvah, Eve, life giving. It’s showing but you can’t show anything if you choose death, can you?

But when we choose life, we will eventually show to the world a creation that God has created. Isn’t that amazing?

JR: Yes, yes, it’s beautiful.

NC: Then there is another one:

Chayah. It means: “to live, to enjoy life, to live life anew, to be animated, to preserve.”

It has got a lot of “re” words: “Revive, refresh, rebuild, recover, repair, restore.” This is all in the meaning of “life giving.” In fact, it’s really a picture of what we do as mothers, isn’t it? We always have to revive, refresh, rebuild, recover, repair, and restore. That’s part of mothering.

Mothering isn’t perfect. Things go wrong. Relationships go haywire. We’re always repairing, rebuilding, recovering, and refreshing. It’s all part of our life giving.

In fact, that’s the word that’s used here in Deuteronomy 30: “ . . .Therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live.” That’s that word chayah: That you may live and reveal and show this wonderful life giving to the world.

Isn’t that amazing?

JR: Yes, yes, it’s wonderful.

NC: In fact, that is the same word that is used over in Deuteronomy 8:3 when it is talking about God’s Word.

This is a Scripture we all know. God is speaking to the Israelites and He says to them: ” . . . that he might make thee know that man doth not live by bread only, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of the Lord doth man live.”

That’s the word chayah again. Of course if you are speaking it in Hebrew you will have that guttural sound, which I cannot pronounce really.

Anyway, that is the word, that life giving word. God is saying that if we live by His Word and His truth this will be life giving to us.

JR: Which I very much believe our nation is suffering terribly from the fact that we have taken this life-giving sustenance away from so many of our women and from so many of our fathers. There is a huge portion of this generation that is missing. You talk about that life giving where abortion has stolen that life from this generation and society.

I feel like there are just wounds all over that oftentimes we don’t even understand  but there is a void because we have not held this life giving in the sanctity that it is. We are suffering as a nation and as a society because of what abortion is doing to our mothers and our fathers.

NC: Yes and the whole underlying thing is the enemy, Satan, who hates life. Because God is a life giver, Satan hates God because he cannot give life. He’s not capable of giving life and so he does everything to stop the life that God gives because he is always seeking to counteract God Himself.

It is a fight. It’s a fight between the two kingdoms: the kingdom of darkness, which is a kingdom of destruction and killing of life, and the kingdom of God, which is a kingdom of life.

Now the challenge is: if we belong to the kingdom of God, we will be life choosers. We will be life choosers.

It doesn’t matter whether we have this name “Christian.” That’s not the point.

Are we a life chooser? Unless we’re a life chooser we do not belong to God’s kingdom because it’s a kingdom of life.

JR: Yes, yes, life going forth, life multiplying, life spreading love and hope. Every baby that is born is new hope, not just to that family but to the community as a whole.

I think that’s why the March for Life is so beautiful because it gathers people who are all saying the same thing: that life is from God and that’s why we stand together and fight for life.

NC: Absolutely. When you think that we have had 63 million babies aborted since Roe versus Wade, that’s unbelievable. Many of them were so called Christians. You think of the seed that has been eliminated.

You know, we should not be having this fight that we are having in our nation at the moment, this fight between life and death, and this incredible hatred and wanting destruction of life. We have this fight even amongst so many politicians today who are prepared to accept babies being aborted right up until birth and even after birth.

I mean, what has happened?

This is unbelievable ,and yet imagine if all the Christian people had not only not consented to abortion but who had also not consented to the stopping of the godly seed. Just think how many Christians are saying No to life even in their marriages. They do contraception and everything they can to stop life.

That’s not God. That doesn’t come from the heart of God. That comes from the enemy. The enemy wants to stop life.

God wants to give life and He wants to bring the godly seed into the world and if we had not stopped it, we would have a landslide for righteousness.

We wouldn’t even need a March for Life!

JR: Yes that’s so true.

NC: But Jennie, thank you for sharing your heart. As we close this session is there anything else that you would like to say?

JR: Thank you for having me. Just praying through this morning how we as parents face when our children or grandchildren come to us. I felt like God took me to John chapter four and the story of the Samaritan woman at the well where Jesus comes in contact with an adulteress and He interacts with her with such love and grace.

He reveals Himself as the Messiah to her. That is the first place recorded in Scripture that He reveals Himself as the Messiah. And it is to a woman that He has confronted her sin in love and then He reveals Himself as the Messiah to a woman who is an adulterer and who is a Samaritan.

I felt like it was just God saying, “This is how I respond to sin. I respond in love and then I respond in revelation and restoration.” He met her where she was, and He worked to restore her to Him.

As parents or grandparents, as we’re working with young people and they come to us, I believe God’s heart is to meet them in that same manner with love and working towards restoration. I just felt like God wanted us to hear His heart as the perfect Father and that when we parent that those children know that mercy triumphs over judgment.

That is Who He is. The perfect Father who always loves and forgives and moves toward redemption and restoration.

I feel like we just need to pray into that as our children are facing horrible temptations in society and knowing that we’ve all sinned and fallen short of the glory of God and He has redeemed us and restored us. We partner with our children and walk them toward that redemption and restoration just like He did as well.

He revealed Himself as Messiah for the first time that we know of to a woman that was completely disregarded by society as a throw away sinner. It is just a beautiful representation of Who He is and Who He wants us to be as we love and nurture these young people.

NC: Yes, thank you, thank you, Jennie.

Let’s pray, shall we?

“Father, we thank You that You are the God of life. You are the God, as Jennie was saying, the God of mercy and restoration. Oh Father, You come to us in our need, in our state but You don’t leave us there. You take us on into life and into all that You have for us.

“Father I pray that You would give to each one of us a new understanding of life. Help us to know and to understand life as You see it. Lord God, life is precious to You. Help us to see that preciousness of life from the moment of conception. Lord God, that we would always be those that want to protect life and encourage life and say Yes to life because You have created us to be life givers.

“We thank You once again that we as women have the privilege of being life givers. You have given us this privilege and this anointing to show to the world. Oh God, we pray that You would anoint us in a greater and greater way to manifest this in our lives, to our families, and to the world around us, and to the hurting and the needy, in the precious name of Jesus. Amen.”

Transcribed by Morgan Roth. Thank you,, Morgan.

 

FROM OUR HOME TO YOURS w/ Nancy Campbell

PODCAST 91: THE PAIN OF LOSING A CHILD

Heather Bryant continues to share about their ordeal of losing their little child. Have you miscarried, given birth to a stillborn baby, or lost a loved child at any age? You will be encouraged as you listen to Heather share how God brought her through to victory, and how He helped them to bring healing to all their family. You can also contact Heather at This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

Announcer: Welcome to the podcast, From Our Home to Yours, with Nancy Campbell, founder and publisher of Above Rubies.

Nancy Campbell: Hello, here we are again today. I have with me Heather Bryant, who was with us last week. I know you're going to enjoy Heather again today. I'm going to ask her a little more about how she has come through that trial of losing their little baby, fourteen months old.

So Heather, thanks for being with us again today. Coming all the way from Washington state, so wonderful of you. Tell me, how you know you have . . . well, at that time, I think, when little Hannah went to be with Jesus, was she number ten at that time?

Heather Bryant:  Yes.

NC: Yes, you've had four since that time. So there were ten children. It was not only you and Barry who were suffering the grief, but each one of your precious children, especially Rachel. Tell us, how did she get through?

HB: Well, it was very hard. It was very hard, but I right away knew that the Lord had her heart, and that she was there. The day after the accident, you know, remember I had prayed that prayer, the Lord has said, “I will not question and I will not be angry, but You have to help my children.”

Well, the day after the accident, we were in our living room, and Rachel was sitting on the arm of our couch. She said, “Mom, remember when you had that bad miscarriage that I had to call 911 for?” I had bled out and passed out.

NC: That was just before Hannah was . . .

HB: Yes, it was two months before. When that happened, my husband yelled to Rachel, who was in a dead sleep, “Call 911!” She told me, she goes, “When I had to call 911,” this was back when she was sitting on the arm of the couch, “I had to do it laying down, because I thought I would pass out. But when I got out of the car and saw what happened to Hannah, I started to panic. But all of a sudden, I heard this voice inside my head say, 'Rachel, I've been doing this a long time, and I know what I'm doing. I don't want you to panic.'”

And she said, “Well, can I cry?” And He said, “Yes, you can cry.” And then she said, “When I was able to cry, I was able to start to focus,” and she was able to call 911.

I wasn't even there. All this was happening while I . . . This whole accident, the accident was unfolding, and God was there. Whether that was an angel or whatever, somebody was there, talking to my daughter. The thing that made me so happy was, she obeyed. She listened and obeyed and responded. It encouraged me.

It took many, many, many hours of . . . my husband would stay up late at night, wouldn't let her go to bed until she would talk to him. There were many times you could tell she was so very bothered. So very bothered.

But we as parents, we over and over and over again, would just remind the children it was an accident. Hannah wasn't ours to begin with, and if the Lord wanted her to live, He would let her live.

So we trusted Him through this. That was one of the main things that I wanted my children to learn through this, watching my husband and I, was I wanted them to see our faith in God when things were very dark. You can preach to your children when it's light, and when everything is fine, but this is the time when they're going to really see, because we are an example to our children.

They were . . .  I purposed in my heart,  at that time, that I wanted my children to see me trusting in God with all of my heart during the hardest time in my life, and, I know, in all of their lives, they were watching us.

NC: That was the greatest lesson you could ever give them, to see it.

HB: I wanted my children to be able to come to me as a mom. I had nine other children that were on earth that I was still responsible for. Even though my heart was shattered into a million pieces, I took my heart. I still just remembered to mentor as well. As I'm sure, spiritually, just laying my heart at the feet of Jesus, and just trusting Him, that He could hold me together, to just be there for my children, while I myself was grieving.

And He did that. In so many ways, He did that. Miracle after miracle would happen. It would literally address a heartache in me. Every time. Every time. It was just absolutely amazing. I don't think I would have had that opportunity to see all those things. I now refer to it as “I grieved with my eyes open.” You know how, when you're really super sad, and you’re really hurting, you squint your eyes shut?

But I remembered thinking about Mary after she was told that she was going to have Jesus. She was a virgin! And she was just told by the Angel of God that she was going to have the Savior! And she had never been with a man.

But I remember her purposing to hide things in her heart, like she watched things. I remember thinking, “I'm going to do that. I'm going to watch and see what God is going to do in this situation.” I was not disappointed. It was absolutely amazing.

For instance, the day after the accident, all of a sudden, my four-year-old, out of nowhere, comes running in from outside. He was like, “Mom! Mom! Hannah's in the sky!” He goes, “I tried to get her to come down, but she won't come!”

I was like, “What?” I mean, I was like, kind of baffled. He grabs my hand and drags me outside. And he starts pointing up to the sky. He's like, “Mom, see? There she is! She's flying!” My daughter, my little daughter, she was three at the time. She's like, “Hannah! Flying! Sky!”

I looked up, and I thought they might be looking at a cloud. There was not a cloud in the sky. It was a beautiful sunny day, and I saw nothing. But I knew they saw something. I just broke into tears.

But that, to me, at least in my mind, well, where is she? What is she . . . you have all these things that you, you know are truth, but they're in your head. But until they're in your heart, it really doesn't mean anything. I mean, until you know that they're in your heart. I just remembered thinking, “My son saw that.” I believed, and it's like, she's fine.

NC: That most probably gave hope to him, too.

HB: Yeah. Oh my, yeah! So a few months later, we took the children to, we surprised them, and we all took a road trip down to Disneyland. One night the same son, my four-year-old, we were walking home, it was at night. He was skipping along, like little four-year-old boys do,

All of a sudden, he got very serious. He walked back to me and grabbed my hand and said, “Mom,” he goes, “I saw Hannah again.” He goes, “But this time she was big.” And I was like, “What?”

He said, he goes, “I asked her if I could come up to her, but she said not until God said.” And then he said, “And Mom,” he goes, “Do you remember when I saw Hannah when she was a baby?”

NC: He remembered, yes.

HB: Yes! He said, “It was in the daytime.” He goes, “But when I saw Hannah when she was big, it was at night.” And he points up to the sky. Down in California, there's kind of smog, so you can't see stars. “See up there, how there's no stars? When I saw Hannah when she was big, there were lots of stars.” And then he just ran off and started skipping.

NC: How beautiful.

HB: But you know what? One of the things in my heart is that she was my baby. And I missed my baby. But when he told me she was big, it was like, I, all of a sudden, was able to kind of let that go. Not that I don't miss her, and not that, you know, but there was a part of me that was able to just . . . the mothering little baby part of me was able to just let go. Because things had changed. Who says she's not bigger in heaven?

He knew, he was saying, that little four-year-old was saying stuff that I just was blown away by. In fact. the day after the accident, I went out to him, and I think it was the Lord, but I went out to him, because he had seen her in the sky.

No, this was the day after he had seen her in the sky. And I went up to him, and he was digging in the dirt. He didn't even look at me. He's digging, and I said, “So Levi,” I go, “When you saw Hannah in the sky, was she by herself?”

He said, “Nope.” He goes, “There was a Jesus helper angel in the front,” and Jesse was the little baby that I had miscarried, that Rachel had talked about. He goes, “Jesse was behind him, and Hannah was behind Jesse.”

NC: Wow!

HB: And he just kept digging. I just was like, “Whoa!” It was like, she wasn't alone, because you always, you know, it's just . . .

NC: He wouldn't think those things.

HB: No! No!

NC: And then, what a beautiful hope. There was your little miscarried baby.

HB: Yes! Yes! Yes!

NC: So glorious!

HB: I know! It was so awesome; things were just so . . . they were miracles to me. And they were answering just perfect in my soul. And it was like an answer for those.

NC: Yes...

HB: Now, did I still grieve? Of course, I still grieved! I think I cried so many tears. I remember purposely drinking water because I thought I would dehydrate.

NC: Yes, so many tears.

HB: I did! I did! But I'll tell you another time that the Lord really just ministered to me, is that one time . . . There were times where my, my heart would just be broken. And it would just be broken all day, like the heaviness of grief would just be on me, like all day long.

But a lot of times I would go to sleep, and then the next morning I'd wake up, and it would be better, because His mercies are new every morning. So I, one day, woke up, and it had been a hard day the day before. I just so, so felt the heaviness.

My husband, at the time, he was away a lot. He was away that day, and He sent a friend . And I'm not the type that . . . I can't just call somebody and say, “I need to talk.” I'm just not that way. Maybe if I was someone and I in depth talked about something, that's one thing.

But I knew that day I had a lot to get done, and I had to! So anyway I, before my day really got started, said, “Lord, I know I wouldn't even be where I'm at mentally, emotionally, if You had not been with me and helped me. Each day I have so much to get done. And I just, I need to talk to a human. I needed someone to come to me and help me, encourage me with words. And I need them to hug me. And I don't want to ask anybody for any help.” I go, “Could you please just send me somebody?”

So anyway, I had to drop my children off at a class, my older children. I had my three-year-old daughter with me. Did a little grocery shopping, went out to lunch. I had a minivan, and I had her car seat positioned in the center of the bench seat behind me so that I could look in the rear-view mirror and see her, so we could talk.

Well, there were a lot of times, that as I was driving, I would start to cry. And I would ugly cry, silently. Like my kids could be going crazy in the back seat, and not even know. I was a hot mess as I'm driving down the road, because I had it down, I had it down perfectly. I'd just be, my face would just be a hot mess, and I'd be bawling, but no sound would come out.

So we're heading back to go pick up my older children at their class, and I am bawling. All of a sudden, I heard this little voice from the back seat. She goes, “Mama, are you crying?” And I said, “Yes, I'm crying.” And a few seconds later, I hear this, “Mama, Hannah live God.”

NC: Wow!

HB: Because we would always say that Hannah was alive with God. That's what we would always tell . . .

NC: How old was she?

HB: Three. But I just kept driving and crying. A few seconds later, I heard her voice again. And she said, “Mama, Hannah live God!” And I just kept driving and crying. And then pretty soon, I heard the voice from behind again go, “MAMA! Hannah live God!” And I said, “I know Hannah is alive with God!” She goes, “Quit whining!”

NC: Ooh...

HB: (Laughing)

NC: Wow.

HB: I'll tell you, that shocked me! As that happened, I was just driving up into the driveway to pick up my children. I opened the car door, and unbuckled Mary. She leapt into my arms and gave the biggest hug ever!

And I will tell you, I knew that those words, God had sent her to talk to me. And I got my hug from my human being. (Crying)

NC: Isn't that wonderful?

HB: Isn't that so God? And I'll tell you, that turned my whole day around. The whole day. And I will never forget that.

NC: It's those little things God does to continue to help you along the way.

HB: Yes, because I purposed in my heartache and my heartbrokenness to grieve with my eyes open. I wanted to see Him move and work. I trusted that He would take this . . . It was a mess that we had created in our humanness and build something beautiful out of it. Which I knew He could! And I know He does!

NC: Yes, so great. I think that the thing we can, we are to mourn, I mean . . .

HB: Absolutely!

NC: But we don't mourn without hope. We mourn with hope.

HB: Yes.

NC: And as we mourn, looking to Jesus, and trusting Him day by day, He just comes and heals.

HB: Right. And even, it may not, for different people, it may not be a death of a loved one. It could be finances. It could be jobs. It could, I mean, there's so many things that can happen in people's lives that we may want to carry ourselves, that the Lord is waiting to carry for us, so He can teach us and help us grow through that.

Think of what Rachel, my daughter, what if we had fallen apart? What if she had not trusted? What would that have made her feel like?

NC: Exactly.

HB: It would have devastated her. I didn't want that. You know, I felt like God took the Israelites through the desert to the Promised Land, which I feel like sometimes is our life. How they started to grumble and complain when He was taking them to the Promised Land. And I remember just going, “I don't want to stay in the desert for forty years.”

NC: That's right.

HB: And, on top of it, never getting to see the Promised Land! I don't want that. I want the fast ticket to get out of here! And I want it for my children. I'm not saying that I do not miss my daughter. I miss my daughter!

My heart aches for my older daughter. That is all there. But it's all in the hands of Jesus, because I can trust the Lord, through either me, or her dad, or people around, and I trust the Lord with my daughter Rachel. I trust Him with her heart. He can reach inside. He's the Great Physician. He's the Great Counselor. He's the Healer.

I mean, He's all those things that I told my daughter a long time ago. When this happened. I said, “Don't trust, rely on your parents or anybody else.” I said, “You hold onto God. You hold onto Jesus. You go to Him for all things because, don't let go of Him. You will need, you're going to need Him, we all need Him.”

But especially in something like this. I feel like there was a time where she was just walking on a tightrope, where she could just fall off. And yet there was Jesus, right in front of her. And He was just, hold His Hand, and you'll make it.

NC: And she held on.

HB: Oooh, yes!

NC: That's one of the most beautiful things to see Rachel today. Such a beautiful, holy daughter of God!

HB: Oh, she is! She is!

NC: She is victorious. So beautiful.

HB: She is in a place beyond even where I feel like I am. She's spiritually, she has gone to places that I . . . I feel so happy as a mom, looking at her, just going . . .

NC: I love to come to the Retreat, and just see her worshiping. It's so beautiful. Leading the whole of, all the ladies  in worship . . . that's victory.

HB: It is. What Satan can use for destruction, the Lord makes something . . . it's not just put together. It is something, a new creation. Because He makes all things new. That's Who He is.

NC: I always think of that beautiful example of the three men who went into the fire, because they would not bow down to the king. You know the fourth Man, the Son of God, came into the fire with them.

I love how the Bible says they came forth out of that fire without the smell upon them. I think people come through these tragedies either one of two ways: some still have the smell on them. It's that, because they've held onto bitterness and anger. They're angry at God.

HB: He can help them!

NC: But that is the saddest thing that can ever happen, because that smell of the fire is always on them, because they haven't given it to Him. Our God is a good God, and we have to trust that He is working everything out for good. He is a good God! We have to acknowledge Who He is. He is a good God, and even in tragedy, He is a good God.

HB: He is.

NC: Because this earthly life is just so temporal. It is so temporal. And there is a real world, a world that we really don't know anything about. It is the real world. It's a world where there'll be no more crying, and there'll be no more tears, and there'll be no more tragedy. It will, everything will be worth it all then.

So precious ladies, if there's any who might be still hanging onto anger or bitterness because of things that have happened, please let it go. Just give it to Jesus, because He will take it. He will, if you mourn, not in bitterness and in anger, but in hope and in trusting Him, He will heal you.

He is the God who is our Healer. “I am the Lord that healeth thee. Jehovah Rapha.” That's not only for our bodies, it's for our souls, our hurts, and the tragedies that we go through. He can bring you into that even greater place. So trust Him, won't you?

I see, of course, in Heather, which is why I asked her to share today, because she's sharing in victory. Therefore she can encourage you.

I think it's wonderful too, Heather, don't you, how often God prepares people. Sometimes it's amazing when a child, tragically something happens to them. And they find that, even beforehand, that child is talking about heaven, and wanting to go to heaven.

HB: Yes.

NC: It's amazing, isn't it? You know, God is in everything, isn't He?

I think you were telling me once about this friend of yours who has a little boy, and he came to his mother and said, “I want to read Randy Alcorn's book Heaven.

HB: Yes.

NC: Now, you haven't even read that, have you?

HB: No! He was 10!

NC: Yes! And he wanted to read that!

HB: And he was reading it, and one day he came to their family devotions after he started reading it, and he goes, “I can't wait to die.”  And they were like, aghast, like, “Don't say that!” You know?

It wasn't long after that he actually did pass away.

NC: Yes . . .

HB: He did. He was thrown from a horse and trampled.

NC: Ooooh . . . And yet God was preparing them...

HB: Yes. Yes.

NC: Isn't that incredible?

HB: Yes, but we have to just . . . .those things, when I heard this story about little Isaiah, I just . . . what a blessing, to even hear that your child wants to go to heaven, and then he ends up going. And you know where he is.

NC: Yes.

HB: Even in your heartache. His mom is one of my dear friends, and it hurt, she's heartbroken.

NC: But she has hope, knowing that he was getting ready to go.

HB: Yes. And even when I sit there and I think of people in different grieving situations like, again, I say, financial, or family members going their own way. But we serve a God that, He loves us, and He's over all. And He reaches me to trust Him, whatever it is.

Don't be angry at Him for the path that your life has taken. Trust Him. Trust, and He will never disappoint. Never. Keep your eyes open and watch for what He is doing.

NC: Yes. Amen. Oh yes, you've found too, that reading books about heaven was an encouragement to you. You used to read them to the children at that time?

HB: Yes. Yes. Yes.

NC: Yes. Tell us about the books that were specifically helpful to you.

HB: Yes. My favorite, I'm more of a . . . I'm less of a Randy Alcorn Heaven type of reader. I'm more …

NC: You're not usually a reader, are you?

HB: Right. I don't really read. I'm horrible. But I love reading about people. So one of my favorite books was Heaven sis for Real. And it was a testimony of a little . . . he was four or five at the time . . . a little boy who had , , , I think they made a movie out of it. But the book is better.

NC: Yes. It always is, isn't it?

HB: Yes. Yes. He went to heaven while he was very, very sick. And the things, he came back, eventually sharing with his parents, like he told his mom that he had met his sister while he was in heaven. She's like, “What?” And he goes, “Yes, I met my sister.” She had miscarried before this little boy was even born.

NC: He didn't even know about his sister.

HB: No.

NC: Wow!

HB: Yeah. And he had met his grandfather. So when his dad showed him a picture . . .

NC: Interrupting here, that is just such an amazing encouragement to so many of you who have lost babies in the womb, who have miscarried.  You grieve, no matter what stage you lose a life. No matter at what stage.

But that little life, because every baby that's conceived is a life, is an eternal soul. And that life you will celebrate in heaven! That's an amazing thing, to think he saw his sister, and he didn't even really know he had one.

HB: Yes!

NC: Amazing!

HB: Some of those things . . . and he saw his grandpa. It was his dad's father who had passed away years before this little guy was born. His dad showed him a picture of his grandpa just before he had died, which was when he was older. And he's like “No, that's not who I . . . that's not my grandpa.”

They happened one day to be going through other photos, and he came across a photo of when his grandfather was early twenties and he goes, “There's Grandpa! That's him!” And he didn't even say, “This is your Grandpa when he was younger.” He was just flipping through the photos.

NC: And he saw . . .

HB: So those kind of things . . .

NC: Now that's interesting. Obviously, they're not old and tottering in heaven.

HB: Yes! So I just, those kinds of things encouraged me so much. This little child probably did see something, and that made heaven more real to me. I would read passages of books of people's experience of dying and coming back. It gave me a little more of an insight through someone else's experience.

I read it to my children. They just, I remember them just sitting there. You could have heard a pin drop. Because they wanted to know that too.

NC: Absolutely. And now that's how many years later? It's about 14 years since . . . or not?

HB: Well, she would have been 13. And she died when she was 14 months old. So it's been . . .

NC: So now, you know, you find that there's real healing in all the family.

HB: Yes. I feel like . . .  know for sure I feel very thankful where I'm at. Sometimes I feel like I should be sadder, but then I'm like, you know what? It's because I know she's alive. I do!

I remember the night it went from my head to my heart. It did! Literally, I had to wake up my husband to tell him. Because it literally, I felt it physically move. I feel like God did that for me.

NC: Wonderful.

HB: Yeah. It didn't happen just right away. It happened months later. But it did happen. And I know she's alive. I know! I remember when my dad passed away. I was like, I'd sit there and say, “He's in heaven.” And I know he is! But it was in my head.

But this went from my head into my heart. I know, I know. You know when you know that you know? I can't even explain it. But it is something that the Lord did for me, and I'm so thankful that I know she's alive! My husband and I chose to have her, and she is, even now, beyond this earth. But she is.

NC: Absolutely. When we conceive, and life comes, if that life is taken in the womb, or later, it was . . .

HB: It was still life!

NC: Yes! It's life. It's alive, and eternal, and will live forever! And we'll celebrate that life forever! It's just so amazing.

HB: Yeah, and I've had six miscarriages, so I must have a crew!

NC: You'll have a wonderful time, meeting all these amazing children!

HB: I know!

NC: Wow! Yes!

HB: It makes you have a completely different perspective on things.

NC: Oh yes! Now getting back to the raising of your family, you told me that after each baby, you've always tried to do something new. Tell us about that. I think that's rather amazing.

I think it must be the fact that when you're creating with God, it's God Who's doing it, but you're cooperating with Him in the creation of life, and somehow it releases that creativity.

HB: I don't know about that! I've tried to sew, and I wasn't very creative with that! (Laughing)\

NC: (Laughing) I think we are all creative in our different ways. Tell us the things . . .  

HB: Some of the things I have done is I've taken up . . . I've taken lessons on something after I've had a baby. Some of the things I remember, I took voice lessons once.

NC: Really?

HB: Yes, for a while, until it got too crazy. But I did. I'd always wanted to do that. I've done stained glass. I can't sew, but I did that instead of sewing, because you can piece things together. So I did stained glass for a while.

I tried all sorts of things. I do like to do crafty things. So I just, because sometimes being a . . . making meals three times a day, cleaning up mess after mess . . . I try and take time just to be able to pull out something really quick and be able to work on it. Even if it's for 20 minutes.

Now that my children have gotten older, I'm definitely, I can do more. You should see, I make signs now, and I sell them at the local shop.

NC: Yes, so now you have a store?

HB: Yes.

NC: You don't have to be there all day.

HB: No!

NC: You just make the things and put them in there.

HB: My husband and I, we work furniture, and I make signs and necklaces. You should see my kitchen. My kitchen is my art studio.

NC: Oh, lovely!

HB: Oh, it's, I've got signs and things, needle-making on one side, and signs being made on the other! (Laughing)

Or a lot of times I just stay up late. I stay up late because it's quiet. But I love those times. I'm up crafting, doing my thing. Then I have to be up at seven the next morning. I'm afraid I don't wake up before my children sometimes, but I stay up later than them to get things done. So . . . but, it works.

NC: Yes, Oh, that's just so beautiful. Well, thank you so much, Heather, for just sharing about this.

HB: Thanks for you having the podcast now, because I know you wanted me to write an article.

NC: Right, in Above Rubies.

HB: Oh, I couldn't do it!

NC: I just couldn't get you . . .

HB: I know, but I can talk! (Laughing)

NC: Yes, isn't that great! Yes, so anyway, we're going to close off again. We'll just remind you about the Retreat.

HB: Yes, the 28^th, 29^th and 30^th.

NC: Goodness me! Yes, of this month! So, OK, hope you can come.

HB: We'll take out-of-staters too. Maybe I'll have a prize for . . .

NC: The one who came the farthest. I know!

HB: What?

NC: One of your glorious signs? Yes!

HB: Glorious signs!

NC: Wouldn't that be amazing?

HB: Now, you cannot participate because . . .

NC: No, because of me having to carry it home on the plane.

HB: I know, I might just make you one to put in. I'll make it so you can put it in your suitcase.

NC: But anyway, now before we put that on Heather now . . . So the one who comes the furthest is going to get one of her absolutely amazing signs.

So, come all you old . . . not you old ladies (Heather laughing) . . . but all you old friends. Because so many of you come back year after year, and it's so exciting to see you!

But we just love to see all these new mums. Oh, we love all you young mums coming. And the daughters, and the grandmothers. Oh, it's just so great. We'll be seeing you all there in Olympia.

Let's pray.

“Father, we just thank You we can talk about family. We know, Lord, that here on this earth, life is not always perfect. Relationships aren't perfect, things happen, we face challenges, but Father, we thank You that we can look to You, that You are in it all.

We can trust You, even when things that look a mess, Lord, You are in control. You are above it. You have got it in Your hand, in the palm of Your Hand. Everything we say, you are bigger. You are bigger! Oh God, we thank You and praise You.

“We pray today for every precious one who has lost life. You've been able to relate today to Heather. But Lord God, we pray that You will just come and comfort them again. Just totally heal them, Lord. Bring healing into their minds, their souls, their emotions, every part of their being. Let Your healing flow through them, oh God, making them whole.

“That they can with their family, with their children, with their extended family, as they go out into this world, that they can go out with their heads up. And Lord, with not the smell of fire on them, even though they've been through the fire. Lord, we pray that they'll come forth with no smell of it upon them, but with Your Glory, and with Your anointing, and Your peace, and Your victory. In the name of Jesus, Amen.”

HB: Amen.

NC: And we bless you in the Name of Jesus. Amen.

P.S. The retreat was postponed because of COVID-19 SHUT DOWN, but keep checking www.aboverubies.org for the new date which will be posted soon.

 

FROM OUR HOME TO YOURS w/ Nancy Campbell

PODCAST 90: YOU ARE WRITING YOUR STORY AS YOU RAISE YOUR FAMILY

Rocky Barrett: Welcome to the podcast, From our Home to Yours, with Nancy Campbell, founder and publisher of Above Rubies.

Nancy Campbell: Hello ladies, it is always great to be with you. Today I have sitting right next to me my dear friend, Heather Bryant. Heather has flown all the way from Washington State to be with us and to do this podcast with me.

We have talked about it for so long and at last we are doing it. I know you are going to be so blessed by Heather. She lives up, as I said, in Washington State right by Puget Sound. I think there is a big cliff right by your house and you look right over to Puget Sound.

Heather Bryant: Yes, it is so beautiful.

NC: You are just so spoiled!

HB: I am! My husband says that all the time.

NC: Yes. Heather is a beautiful mother of a few children.

HB: Just a few.

NC: Yes, just a few! She actually has fourteen children, but you wouldn’t know it if you were looking at her.

She is going to share just a few things of her mothering.

We should start about getting married first, because you get married first, don’t you?

HB: Yes, yes indeed!

NC: Any way, tell us, were you in love with your husband when you first started out.

HB: No! No, I really wasn’t. He just came into my life and he, on the whole, just really irritated me on so many levels. I didn’t find him physically attractive and he bugged me. In fact when he would leave my parent’s house, half the time I slammed the door behind him.

My mom said later on that she would just shake her head and think, “He’s the one.”

NC: So what changed your mind?

HB: Well, like I said, I really didn’t feel all the superficial things but there was that still small voice, literally, that I probably don’t listen to as often as I should.

But at that time it was loud enough, and I felt God almost physically turning me back toward Barry (my husband now) and almost saying, “That is the one I have chosen for you.”

I had a lot of admiration for him. I felt like he was completely different from any other guy I had ever met before. So with those kind of things in my head and then that feeling that God had chosen him for me I just went forward.

NC: And now, isn’t it nearly thirty years later?

HB: Yes and I adore him. He is like my best friend.

I don’t even know why I didn’t think he was good looking because he is quite handsome, and I feel bad for all the other women in the world whose husbands are not as handsome as mine.

NC: That is so wonderful and together Barry and Heather have been writing a beautiful story. I often think that this is what it is about raising a family. It’s writing a story.

I was thinking about that at Christmas time. Colin and I went over to Serene and Sam’s. I thought, “Do you know what I will do? I think I will write a limerick for everyone in the family.” So I wrote a little limerick for each of the children about their personality.

This is the simple little limerick I wrote for Serene:

“An incredible mother lives in this home

Who brings love and blessings and shalom.

She shines with glory

As she writes her story

With each precious child in her home.”

That’s, of course, a beautiful testimony of Serene but I was thinking about that with you, too, Heather. That’s what you have been doing, you have been writing this story.

Dear ladies, that’s what all of you are doing. You are writing your story. Each one of your stories is going to be different. Wouldn’t it be boring if they were all the same?

HB: Oh indeed.

NC: God is so unique! And every child that comes into the world that God orchestrates, and God just grows and creates in the womb is so different, each one is unique.

There is not one child that is born that is like any other that has ever been born or any other that ever will be born.

It’s like that with every family. Every family is unique.

Wow, it’s just as well that all of the families are not like us it would be hair-raising! We’re all different. We have our own sort of personality about our family.

I know you have that about your family, Heather.

Isn’t it great hearing about other families and their stories? Heather is going to tell us about some of her story today.

We have got to start out, of course, with your children and all of their names.

HB: Oh yes, I hope you wrote that down!

NC: I did! I wrote the names in case you forgot them!

HB: I know! I don’t remember birthdays very well at all.

NC: Well we won’t put that in.

So Rachel is their oldest and I know Rachel because Heather has been putting on and organizing Above Rubies retreats in Washington State for, I can’t even remember how many years!

HB: I think it’s been almost fourteen years because Mary was little, and she is over fourteen.

NC: Isn’t that amazing? I just love faithful women who put themselves to the task and never give up and here we are doing another one again this year!

HB: You know what I think, that’s what it is, you never give up. Things don’t always go sometimes how you plan but it’s showing up after they don’t always go as planned.

NC: That’s right. That’s what life is about, isn’t it? Faithfulness, never giving up, just the duties of life.

So ladies, we are having another ladies retreat in Washington State. We have it in Olympia.

HB: Yes, in Olympia at Black Lake Bible Camp.

NC: Do you know the date?

HB: I do but I can’t remember! It’s the last weekend in March.

NC: Yes, the last weekend in March. Ladies, that’s coming up so quickly, but you can still get in. Don’t miss it! If you’ve never been before, make an effort to come. There is nothing like an Above Rubies retreat. You will be encouraged through the ministry but also through the wonderful fellowship.

HB: It is. I have friends at that retreat and that is where I go see them. We connect but just to be able to know that I will get to go see those ladies at that time. Some of my dearest friends I have met at the Above Rubies retreat.

NC: Even the children. This is not a family camp, but mothers bring their older daughters and they make wonderful friends, too.

In fact, I love people to come to our Above Rubies Ladies’ Retreats with three generations of grandmothers, the mothers, and the children. It’s great; it is just so wonderful!

So Heather is doing that again this year.

HB: Rachel, she leads worship at the retreat.

NC: Yes, Rachel is a beautiful girl. I knew her as a teen and now she is married with three little boys.

Then Luke, he is married with three little girls.

HB: Yes, I am Grandma six times over. Actually, I’m Mae Mae. That’s what I’m called, Mae Mae.

NC: Yes, everyone has their own special names they love to be called.

HB: I know, you’re Nana, right?

NC: Yes, I’m Nana or Nanny.

Then there is Bekah who is courting. I love courting.

HB: Yes, in Florida. She is not in Washington with us at this point.

NC: Yes, I was just counting up the other day, just in our family, and counted up six courting couples.

HB: Love is in the air around here, I’m not even kidding!

NC: It’s so wonderful!

Then Ruth is 21 and Simon is 20. Then Sam, he’s your tree-topper, isn’t he?

HB: Yes, he is 18 years old. He just applied for his business license and he’s got that all lined up and he’s been doing a few tree-topping jobs.

NC: Oh and we forgot to say what Luke does!

HB: He’s a bomb diffuser in the Air Force.

NC: That’s pretty exciting!

HB: Yes, I guess! He seems to like it. As a mother I’m like, “Did we have to pick that kind of a career?” But I guess to each his own.

NC: I think he’s already been in places with President Trump where he’s had to diffuse bombs if they are there.

HB: Yeah, yeah.

NC: Then Levi and Mary and they are with us here, too.

HB: Don’t forget Peter!

NC: Oh yes, we’ve got Peter, too. Then Hannah, she is with Jesus now, but we are going to talk about her later. This is one of the most precious things that Heather will talk about with you.

Then there is Chloe, Susie, and Jael, and Elisha or Ellie. She is three, isn’t she?

HB: Yes, I had her when I was 48.

NC: Wow, isn’t that wonderful? Forty-eight— you are blessed because there are many women who are still longing for another baby. I get emails from women that say, “Oh please pray for me for I am still longing for another baby.” They are in their forties, but no babies are coming. So you were really blessed.

HB: I really was and am. I still am.

NC: Oh, I know! You’ve hardly started!

HB: That’s what my husband says anyway.

NC: What does he say to you?

HB: He always wonders who else is in there. He looks at me and he says, “I wonder who else is in there?”

He’s very unusual for a man! He told me he would never get mad if I got pregnant.

In fact, I think when I got pregnant with Hannah, I called him, and I told him that I was pregnant ,and he was very happy. But then later he called me back and he goes, “I just want to thank you for being willing to have our children. I just know that you are older and it’s not easy. I realize that every time you do have a child you are basically giving up a part of yourself to grow this child and I see that, and I am really thankful for a woman like you.”

NC: Isn’t that beautiful?

HB: That was like the best. I was like crying! It was just so sweet.

NC: And with all these children you have been writing your story and building your home.

I was just reading again today that wonderful Scripture, Proverbs 14:1: “Every wise woman buildeth her house: but the foolish plucketh it down with her hands.”

Actually three times in Proverbs it talks about the wise woman building.

In Proverbs 9:1 says: “Wisdom hath builded her house . . ..” Do you notice the three words there? Wisdom, build, house.

Then again in Proverbs 14:1: “Every wise woman buildeth her house . . ..”

Proverbs 24:3: “Through wisdom is an house builded . . ..”

The three go together. It is a wise woman who builds and if we’re building, we’re wise, and what are we building? We’re building a home and a family.

That’s what it’s all about.

Sometimes I love to go to some old translations. I have here the Knox translation and I love it. It is an old one.

It says: “It is by woman’s wisdom a home thrives; a foolish wife pulls it down about her ears.”

The Moffat translation says: “Wisdom builds the house of life; frivolity pulls it down.”

And so that’s what you’ve been doing, isn’t it? But I’m sure you had struggles.

HB: Oh for sure. Sometimes I’m listening to you and I’m just like, “I’m not all there.” On the whole I try to build my home and I ask the Lord to help me every day. You know there are struggles.

NC: That’s life.

HB: Yeah.

NC: Even having your children, did you have perfect pregnancies every time?

HB: No. I’ve been pregnant twenty times and have had fourteen live births. I’ve had a couple of really bad miscarriages that I ended up in the hospital with a DNC and a blood transfusion.

NC: And still you never gave up.

HB: No I didn’t.

NC: God was with you and kept you and He was faithful.

HB: Yeah. It was not easy. It was not easy, and it isn’t easy. Even as your children are growing, they’re making more and more decisions on their own.

You can’t just line up all the children in a row and tell them exactly what to do and they’re going to go do that thing exactly how you tell them.

NC: I know, I often thought it would have been just nice if I could have had robots!

HB: Oh I know, wouldn’t it?

NC: But they’re not robots!

HB: And just changing. When your children start growing up and becoming more independent but then you still have little children at home, it can get really confusing.

But you just plug on. Some days I just go, “I’m starting over today” and it’s all right.

NC: That’s right, that’s life—plodding on.

HB: And just giving yourself a break. Giving yourself, grace. Having your heart set on doing the right thing but we are human, we will make mistakes but just give your self grace.

NC: Yes—and plodding on. I think it is a powerful thing—plodding on. As the Bible says, when a righteous man falls, he gets up again. He can fall seven times and get up again (Psalm 37:34, 35; Proverbs 24;16; and Micah 7:8).

HB: It’s when you don’t get up that that’s the problem. Just get up!

NC: It’s like a little baby when they’re starting to walk. They walk along, they fall, but they never stay down.

They get up and that’s the secret, I believe, of life. We all face struggles and challenges in different ways and sometimes I feel like jolly well getting up and getting out of this place, but we can’t. We have to get up again and face the fray.

We don’t do it on our own, but we face it with God, and He enables us. And here you are, you’re still alive today!

HB: Yes, here I am! Who knew?

NC: What was your best and what was your worse birth?

HB: Levi was my best birth. I remember I was in labor and I knew I was. I had my husband call my midwife. I had just seen her the day before and I was barely dilated but she had stripped my membranes. The next day I felt something going on and I remember having a contraction and I said to my husband, “Call the midwife.”

He said, “Are you sure?”

I looked at him and I’m like, “CALL HER” and he said, “Okay!” because I was having a contraction that I just knew.

She came and she told me later she didn’t think anything was going on because I literally was not even dilated.

I said, “Well I just had a contraction.” I was lying in my bed and I said, “They were five minutes apart” and it had been great.

You can be in labor for quite a while when your contractions are five minutes apart, so we started talking. But about two and a half minutes into our little chat I started having a contraction and my water broke.

She goes, “Oh, something IS happening.”

So I just kind of labored for probably about an hour more. Then all of the sudden my water broke again, and I pushed once and boom— there he was.

In fact I knew my best friend was around the area and I called her and said, “Hey I just had my baby! Come on over!”

She goes, “What?”

I mean I don’t think the placenta had even come out. I was fine. I remember thinking, “Is this it? This was wonderful!”

I think Mary’s was a long birth.

NC: She was the next one after Levi?

HB: Yes, and it changed. I’ve had them all over the board!

NC: I know, this is the thing with childbirth. Sometimes, you know, maybe some of you precious mothers have been through very, very challenging childbirths and you think, “Wow, oh my, how could I ever do that again?”

But please, be encouraged, because every birth is different. Even if one birth is a difficult one, it doesn’t mean that it’s going to be like that next time. It can be just so amazing!

HB: Yes, in fact I remember the first birth, with Peter, which was before Levi, that I actually prayed and asked God. I actually had three things that I had asked Him. I remember reading this book about the man who started Royal Concern and he used to pray about everything.

His wife wrote a book and she said that there were actual knee prints in front of his bed because he had prayed and never asked for anything. I remember thinking that the only reason he does that is because of his faith.

I thought, “Well I just normally go into childbirth and just beg God for mercy.” I remembered you always say, “The Lord has mercy on those who give suck.” It’s basically saying that the Lord has mercy on mothers.

Anyway, I decided that there were three things that really stressed me out about birth and one of them was laboring through the night.

Once it passed twelve o’clock, I just wanted to go to bed! I wanted to be done. So that was one of the things that prior to Peter’s birth I asked for. I said, “Lord, could my birth be done before midnight?”

The second one was I did not want to push for a long time. I was just asking. He didn’t have to answer. I can’t remember the third one because those were the two really big things.

I’ll tell you, that was my first time that I did not have to push for a long time. I would have to push for a long time, for hours. I literally pushed, I remember, three times and he was born at 11:30 in the evening.

NC: Wow, so every time the Lord answered your prayers! How wonderful!

HB: Well I wouldn’t say I prayed every single time but that one I did pray.

NC: Well, no, but those times that you did pray. Then it makes you think, you have not because you ask not. You think, “Why didn’t I ask the other times?”

HB: I even do that now. I’ve had some pretty big things happen in my life where I have literally laid it down at the feet of Jesus and I’ve just left it there. I never took it back and I’m thankful I did.

But then after that happens life goes on. There are times that later on I look back and I think, “Why didn’t I pray about this? Why didn’t I pray and ask the Lord to help me? Why did I pick it up and take it and start doing it on my own?”

NC: Yes, yes. Then you had precious little Hannah. Tell us about that. She went to be with the Lord at about 14 months, didn’t she?

HB: Yeah, she was 14 months old.

NC: Tell us what happened there.

HB: Well my oldest daughter, Rachel, she accidentally ran her over with our car and she basically died pretty quickly after that. So it was two of my daughters were affected highly at that moment.

NC: So she was just backing out, was she?

HB: Yes, yes.

NC: Yes, that’s something that happens quite often, doesn’t it?

I know the mothers around here have that fear because we have so many teens now with cars and then so many little wee ones.

They’re all saying, “Okay, you must not even drive your car before you go around the back and look around and look around again.”

HB: Oh yeah, it’s something that people just in everyday life kind of forget.

It was very devastating. Not in a permanent way but it was terrible. You just sit there and go, “If I had only walked around the car. If I had only checked.”

NC: Oh I know, but who does ever check? Unless you have that constant reminder, it’s just not something you do. That’s something we try to do around here now because of the teens driving and the little wee ones at the same time.

Didn’t that happen about three months after it had happened with Steven Curtis Chapman?

HB: It did, and I remember my daughter came to me when we had heard that and she said, “If that ever happened to me, I would die.”

And it was three weeks later it happened to her.

NC: Oh yes.

When it happened what did she do? Were you there?

HB: I was there. I was across the street. We were getting ready for Vacation Bible School and our house is a field away from our church.

My son came and he’s like, “Mom, something really bad has happened. It’s Hannah.”

I go, “Well what happened?”

He goes, “Just come.”

I go, “WHAT HAPPENED?”

He goes, “Rachel ran her over.”

I’m like, “Oh my lands.”

I arrive in our yard and all my nieces and nephews are there because we were all getting ready for Vacation Bible School and all my children were there. There were ten including Hannah.

It was chaos. It was absolutely chaos. There were children crying everywhere. I couldn’t find Rachel. She had just panicked and ran off.

My daughter Ruth had called 911 and they had told her not to touch the baby, so she was just bent over her, kneeling down on her knees over Hannah’s body, crying.

You could tell she was out of it. She would breath every now and then. It was terrible.

I remember walking and trying to find Rachel. My neighbor had come over and was doing CPR on Hannah.

I remember just walking by our kitchen window and I said, “Oh God, I won’t be mad, and I won’t even question, but You have to help me take care of my children.”

Because all of a sudden you have all these children and they all hurt different and they process different and I knew there was no way I would be able to do that on my own. I couldn’t do it and I needed His help. There was nothing I could do about Hannah.

In fact there was something inside me that I knew she would not make it. There was a little abrasion on her forehead, so she didn’t look horrible. Actually I was very thankful for that.

But I knew she wouldn’t make it. So my focus was on my children who were alive, especially my three older children, Rachel, Luke (who had brought Hannah outside), and Bekah, who was supposed to be watching Hannah, but she was inside making lunch.

I mean it was all normal things. Luke brought her out to play. She was a baby that was super laid back. She had just kind of started walking and crawling. She was a late bloomer in that.

NC: So she was barely walking?

HB: Well she was on a sled. They had been pulling her around and she crawled behind the car. It just doesn’t take that much time for things to go bad.

Anyway, I got to tell you. Do you want me to tell you the story about the police officer who was the first to arrive on the scene? It was kind of an interesting story.

NC: Yes.

HB: This happened in June and in December I was doing errands and I was in a vehicle that was not our family car. It was our commuter car. I guess the tabs had expired on it, so I got pulled over by a police officer.

They ask for your license, proof of insurance, and your registration for your car, so I give it to him. He was taking a little while because they’re going back, and I don’t know what all he was doing.

I am sitting there, and I look in the rearview mirror and he’s kind of digging around in his car and I thought, “What is he doing?”

As he was doing all this I prayed to the Lord and said, “It would be different if I was speeding; but I wasn’t speeding, I didn’t know about the tabs. Could You please make it so that the policeman couldn’t give me a ticket?”

It was Christmastime and we were trying to buy presents for our children, and we have a whole bunch of them, so I was just like, “Please!”

It probably would have been about over three hundred dollars for me to make it right. I had gotten my husband a container of candy to put in his stocking at Christmas. I got so nervous I opened it and just started eating it while I was waiting for the police officer to give me a ticket because my tabs had expired!

Anyway, he eventually comes up and I said, “Is everything okay?”

He said, “Well I lost your driver’s license.”

I said, “Well I gave it to you.”

He said, “I know you did.”

So he had me pull up into this gas station and he has every door open and his trunk open. He’s like digging around in his patrol car.

He comes up to me and he gives me back my registration and proof of insurance and he goes, “Well, I cannot find your driver’s license and so I cannot give you a ticket. I have been doing this for over 20 years and this has never happened to me.”

I go, “Well I know what happened?”

He goes, “What?”

I said, “I prayed that you can’t give me a ticket and God answered my prayer!”

He said, “Well I’m a praying man myself. It worked!”

So fast-forward to June when the accident happened. Just before that I was at our local pizza place getting cards for our junior helpers for our Vacation Bible School because we reward them at the end of the time and there was the police officer.

In the meantime I had shared with a friend of mine who was a teacher at the high school that he had worked as a police officer to watch over the young people. I had told her what had happened and so she had gone and talked to him about it.

He had vacillated between police officer and a pastor. He had come and asked if he could come to our church and preach in that time, but it never worked out.

So anyway, I went up to him at the pizza place and I said, “Hey, do you remember me?”

He looks at me for a second and he goes, “Driver’s license!”

NC: Did he ever find it?

HB: He did. He went to the mechanic at the police station and had to take out his front seat and the driver’s license had fallen into a little crack between the front seat and the consul.

NC: Well it was God answering your prayers!

HB: Yep, yep. So we were able to, at the pizza place, just chat as a Christian brother and sister and remember and laugh and stuff.

Anyway, he was the first police officer to show up on the scene. When something like that happens, you’re scared, and you don’t know what’s going to happen.

NC: So it was someone familiar to you.

HB: Yes, yes. Just before I left to the hospital, News helicopters were flying over so we had brought all the children in my house.

I remember my friend and I were about ready to leave to the hospital. They had brought all of the children in; all of my children were inside.

Officer Johnson had come up to me and he said, “My heart is just broken. Is there anything that I can do?” I mean, he had tears in his eyes.

I said, “Could you just go into my children.” I go, “As a father, as police officer, as a Christian, you can say whatever you want to them. I just want them to know that it was an accident.”

I didn’t know how Rachel’s brothers and sisters would respond to her. It was just such a blessing to have John Johnson, the police officer, just be there. I knew he was a Christian; I knew he wanted to help in that way and just to send him in before I left was so comforting.

Later on I was told by one of his colleagues who had found out that he was the one who had shown up first, he said to me, “You had the best.”

Literally when I talked to someone about the doctor who took care of Hannah, the lady I talked to said to me, “You had the best.”

I kept over and over hearing that and I believe it, and do you know what? It was the most comforting thing to know that we had the best even though the worst did happen.

In these hardest moments I just felt so cared for and loved and I knew that He loved all of us. He even loved Hannah.

In fact, I know that Hannah is more alive than you and I right now. She’s at the feet of Jesus! What could be better than that?

NC: So wonderful.

Well, our time is gone but I think we’ve got to talk again.

HB: Yes.

NC: I think we’ll come back next podcast because there are many more things that Heather will share about this. I know it’s going to be especially encouraging to those of you who have had miscarriages, those of you who have had stillbirths, those of you who have lost little ones, and even those of you who have lost bigger ones.

Let’s pray now.

“Father, We are just thinking today of so many precious mothers whose hearts, Lord God, some of which are still aching. They don’t even know how to get rid of this burden.

“But Lord, we pray that You would come to them today. Come and bring Your comfort again. Let them know that their precious loved one is with You. This is the comfort that we have. We have an eternal hope.

“We thank You, Lord, we thank You that we look forward to the eternal realm, which is the real world and where we will celebrate life with all those who have gone before.

“I pray that You will bless them and comfort them and strengthen them this day, in the precious name of Jesus. Amen.”

Come back next week because you are going to hear more from Heather, and I know you are going to be so blessed and encouraged and strengthened.

P.S. You can email Heather at This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it..

The Olympia retreat was postponed because of COVID-19 SHUTDOWN. However, keep checking the webpage, www.aboverubies.org for the new date which should be posted soon.

 

FROM OUR HOME TO YOURS w/ Nancy Campbell

PODCAST 88- LIFE, DEATH, COURTING, WEDDINGS, AND A TRIP TO ISRAEL!

Rocky Barrett: Welcome to the podcast, From Our Home to Yours, with Nancy Campbell, founder and publisher of Above Rubies.

Nancy Campbell: Hello ladies! It is so wonderful to be with you again.

This morning I have my dear friend, Alison Hartman, with us again. They have just arrived back from Israel.

Alison and Daniel and their two oldest daughters, Makenna and Eden, along with Serene, Sam and their two oldest daughters, Chalice and Cherish and little Remmy and Solly all went to Israel together, the ten of them. A great team!

How did you all survive together?

Alison Hartman: Oh my goodness, ha-ha! It started off a little rocky. We brought the stomach bug with us from Tennessee. That was interesting. Every day we had somebody sick; but even in that we had lots of laughs and it really bonded us quickly.

It really worked out great timing wise because it was right when we got there, and we had jetlag and needed a few days to relax before we hit the road running.

NC: I think you did hit the road running, didn’t you? Here you are pregnant and how many weeks are you?

AH:  Thirty-two.

NC: Thirty-two weeks and she just ripped her legs off, didn’t you?

AH: Yeah, Remmy and I earned the trophy for walking far more than we should.

NC: Yes, poor little Remmy, he’s four and he had to walk everywhere. They all arrived home and came walking into our lounge and Sam, I think it was a joke, said to Remmy, “Come on, Remmy, let’s go for a walk!”

Remmy started crying and crying. “Oh help, no!”

AH: They’ve ruined him for ever walking again! We walked miles and miles and miles. A lot of it was uphill; a lot of them were steep hills. We only called a taxi once because I just couldn’t do it.

NC: You did so amazing.

Anyway, we’re going to talk more about Israel and what they did there in this session. I think Pearl and Serene are back to doing their podcast today and I am sure Serene will be talking about it on the Trim Healthy Mama podcast.

But before we even go on to that I must share that this time we’re going through a grieving time here in our family. Life is not all just roses, is it?

Just a couple of days ago my granddaughter-in-law gave birth to a stillborn baby. She is Evangeline’s daughter-in-law. Evangeline was sharing just a few weeks ago on podcast 85. Did you listen to Evangeline? That was just so amazing. If you missed it, get back to it and listen to it. I think we mentioned there that her son Jireh and Alyvia were expecting a baby.

This beautiful baby was kicking and beautiful. Mother and baby were both healthy. Then all of a sudden, life went. They believe that the baby must have been doing such incredible acrobats in the womb that something happened to the cord and life stopped.

So many of you, I know, you have lost babies. You have lost babies in the womb. Even in the womb it is grievous as losing a little one who is born. There is something about life. I mean, you bond to life in the womb, you bond to this baby, and you name this baby. This baby is a living being.

This couple has just been going through horrendous, horrendous grief. It just makes you realize, and you can’t even believe it, how so many today can just discard life in the womb.

They are not aware of the preciousness of life.

We have governments in our nation who are prepared to make it law that a baby can be killed even after birth if it is destined for abortion. How can we even take this in when someone who knows it is life must go through such grieving?

Life here in this world is embracing life and then many times we must face the death of life, which is always the most horrific thing that we will ever have to go through.

We mourn, but we can mourn in hope. For those of you who have been through this, you know that we have to mourn in hope, don’t we? The hope of eternity! This little darling life will be celebrated into eternity forever. That’s the wonderful thing. Although we miss life here, we have the hope of eternal life. It is so incredible.

I think often we have got to live beyond the day-to-day and see that the eternal realm is the real world. I often have to remind myself that this is not the real world, but this is the temporary world, preparing for eternity. Do you have to do that?

The eternal world is the real world.

We look to that as we face what is going on.

But then again, we have other beautiful things happening. I was counting up the other night, that in our family life, we have about six courting couples. Isn’t that amazing?

Some of them are young and waiting for that time when they can be married but it is so beautiful, and it is so wonderful. I don’t think there is anything that rejoices my heart more than to see God bring a couple together. It’s miraculous. It’s incredible. There are all the people in the world and God just brings two special people together.

It’s so amazing.

Then we have the hope of weddings and babies coming after weddings! Isn’t it amazing?

God loves all this. Did you know that in the Bible God talks about the joy of weddings? God loves it. Today some people just go to a registry office and get married. They don’t celebrate it.

So many couples today are not even getting married. Oh, it breaks my heart. They don’t even get married; they just live together. They have lost the awe and the wonder of weddings and of a marriage.

I’m just thinking of Jeremiah 33:10, 11 and it says: “Thus saith the LORD; Again there shall be heard in this place . . . The voice of joy, and the voice of gladness, the voice of the bridegroom, and the voice of the bride, the voice of them that shall say, Praise the Lord of hosts: for the Lord is good; for his mercy endureth for ever . . ..”

This is God talking about the blessing of God coming again upon Israel.

He says this is what is going to happen: When I bless you again, what will happen?  There will be the voice of joy, the voice of mirth, and the voice of the bridegroom, and the voice of the bride. There will be merriment, rejoicing, and joy. There will be weddings and out of weddings will come babies and the godly seed.

It’s God’s blessing. It is God’s blessing on the land when godly virgins are coming together and then they marry and then they embrace children and then raise godly families.

This is God’s plan.

Then conversely, there are Scriptures similar that say that when God is bringing His curse upon the nation because they have turned away from Him, they have habitually sinned and sinned and sinned and He says: “Now this is what will happen.”

It says here in Jeremiah 7:34; 16:9; and 25:10. Three times God says: “For thus saith the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel; Behold, I will cause to cease out of this place in your eyes, and in your days, the voice of mirth, and the voice of gladness, the voice of the bridegroom, and the voice of the bride.”

When we no longer have lots of weddings, that is God’s curse.

We need to see God’s blessing is on marriage and the beautiful celebration of weddings and God bringing a couple together and establishing a family. It is the most beautiful thing.

Anyway, we are here today to find out more of what happened in Israel!

So, you first stayed in Jerusalem, didn’t you?

AH: Yes.

NC: Tell me the view you had of Jerusalem.

AH: Oh my goodness, we never dreamed we’d have such a neat accommodation. We had met a missionary in Pensacola where we live. They were visiting, from Israel, one of their sons. I had just met her a couple of years ago. She said, “If you’re ever in Israel, look us up” so we did. They have a ministry called Road to Emmaus.

They are a family with seven children. They’ve actually made Aliyah because he has Jewish heritage. They are just the neatest family. They let us rent their top apartment. We had the whole place to ourselves.

The back view was the Mount of Olives. It was just like the cherry on the top. We never dreamed that we would have such an amazing view in an apartment in a city, but you overlook the most amazing background.

This family didn’t just give us a key and say, “Have a good time.” They really were there. Their ministry is to bring in fellow believers and share the experience of Israel with them. They really walked it out with us. We even shared the stomach bug with them, and they still loved us!

They do a Shabbat meal and their church service up in the apartment we were staying at, so we had to let them come in. But it was great because they included us, and we made food together. It wasn’t like they treated us like a visitor, they treated us like family.

It was so neat because we got to see their perspective. As the podcast goes on, I’ll tell you about all the others we met. It was so neat to see a little snapshot of their place in Israel and what they are doing to serve the Jewish people.

NC: Yes, so that was right in Jerusalem. I think you walked the streets of Jerusalem, didn’t you?

AH: We did. We did rent a car, which was a little scary because Sam, I think purposefully, left his driver’s license here in America so my husband, Daniel, drove.

It was a stick-shift nine-passenger van. When you’re driving a stick and you haven’t done it since you were a teenager, it can be a little scary. Everything is a hill. We live in Florida and everything is flat. So he would get stuck on the top of a hill. The car would die, and we would start rolling back.

Serene would start singing, “JESUS!”

It was pretty funny!

Anyway, we had funny laughs, but some scary moments.

The funniest thing was when Serene said, “For some reason I feel like we’re in a foreign country, we really can’t die.” I kind of thought the same thing but I didn’t want to say it. But I said, “Yeah I kind of felt the same way but our chances of dying keep increasing the more we drive.”

These Israeli drivers are crazy. They love to honk. They love to cut in and you don’t expect it because you’re not used to that. Turn signals are never used.

We had quite the adventure! We rode the bus a couple times.

Sam accidentally hit this lady with his backpack, and he didn’t realize he did it. Then he turned to say he was sorry, and he hit her again. I think he hit her a third time! Nobody spoke English and he was trying to say he was sorry, but he couldn’t speak Hebrew.

Another funny story was we couldn’t figure out how the bus system worked. We looked at the sign and finally found somebody and said, “Can you speak English? Can you tell us when the bus is coming?”

He looked at us and then looked at the sign, then looked at us and looked back at the sign and the sign was in English and we didn’t know it!

He said, “Right there it says it will be here in seven minutes.”

We were all just kind of like, “Oh!”

We had the big sign “Dumb Tourist” written all over us.

NC: Of course you went on your own and explored without a tour guide.

AH: Yes, no tour guide, no tour bus, and honestly no plans. That was the coolest part.

We had many people, including my family, say, “What? You can’t go to Israel without a plan! You’re going to waste two weeks.”

Well, I just can’t wait to tell you how untrue that was. It really maybe wasn’t wise. we didn’t plan anything because we have just been so busy.

We got there and man, the doors got opened. We couldn’t have even planned such a wonderful trip.

NC: I know, it’s just so amazing. I was just looking through this morning and I must show you some of my albums of Israel. When we lived in Australia, Colin and I took tours to Israel. I was reading this beautiful poem, which I have in my album:

Words fail me when I think about the Holy Land;

I only know that where my Saviour stood, I stand.

And thus the hills He did behold, mine eyes have seen,

And where hath trod the Son of God, I too have been.

That’s the thing, isn’t it, when you go to Israel you’re not going just as a tourist to visit another country.  You go, and you experience, and you feel. That’s the wonderful thing.

Now, on the way there, just as you’re getting on the plane to Israel you met the Waller’s, didn’t you?

AH: Yes, well you had told us . . .

NC: Yes, I said, “You have got to get out to the West Bank!”

AH: We thought, “Well, we’ll get there if we can. It would be great, but who knows?”

We were in line getting on the plane from New York to Israel and I think I had gone potty (because I went to every potty in Israel because I’m pregnant.).

When I came back Serene was hugging somebody and I thought, “Who in the world does she know in New York?”

It was the Waller’s. They had just visited their daughter in America, and they were heading back. They were in first class because they had a buddy pass and God blessed him with first class.

NC: Yes, she said that was the first time that ever happened.

AH: It was such a sweet blessing because they were in America to grieve the loss of one of their grandchildren that their daughter had just lost and so what a neat little kiss from God.

I went up to them and I said, “Hey, you don’t know me but I’m friends with the Campbell’s, friends with Sam and Serene, but we have no plans for the next two weeks. Do you think you could help us?”

Mr. Tommy Waller just looked at me and he goes, “We gotcha. We gotcha covered.”

We ended up not seeing them after the flight because they were first class and they were out of there. But then we contacted him a few days into our trip. Daniel, Sam and he all talked, and they had a plan. They invited us and we spent three nights with them and boy, did they roll out the red carpet. I mean they treated us so wonderfully.

NC: Yes, I am so glad you got out there to the West Bank because I think that is one of the most incredible things you can do if you go to Israel. That is the heartland of Israel. It is the very place where Joshua brought the children of Israel into the new land that they had to begin to conquer.

Of course you stayed right up on the Mount of Blessing, didn’t you? How amazing!

AH: Yes, that was so neat!

NC: Now ladies, I wonder if you know what the Mount of Blessing is.

When Joshua brought the children of Israel into the land, he brought them right into a little valley between two mountains—the Mount of Blessing (which in the Bible is called Mount Gerizim) and Mount Ebal.

Mount Gerizim is the Mount of Blessing. I think today they call it Har Brakha, don’t they?

AH: I think so.

NC: Yes, that’s what they call it. I’m sure some of you who are listening know this precious family, the Waller’s. Some of you have most probably been out to even work with them.

Their ministry is HaYovel, which means “Jubilee.”

When they first went out to the Land, God was leading them and they didn’t know what they were going to do but God was saying, “Go to Israel.” That was fifteen years ago and their youngest was just a little boy.

One of my Above Rubies covers had their little boy praying at the Wailing Wall. Now all these years later they are still there. Their children have grown. They took their eleven children out there to the West Bank where most people often fear to go because it is overrun with Arabs there who are not friendly to Israel.

God just so sovereignly, miraculously, and amazingly began to show them His plan of how He wanted to enable them to help the farmers of Israel who were planting the hillsides with vineyards.

Because they had had experience in farming, God had been preparing them. God put on their hearts to give their lives to befriend the Jewish people and to help them. For these last fifteen years or so they have gone to Israel, poured out their lives, stood beside these farmers and helped them prune, plant, and harvest their vineyards.

They have gathered young people and families in from all over the world to come and help them, especially in the harvest season. It is amazing.

Their children, of course, have gradually gotten married and now I think there are only three of their children left who are not married and they’ve gotten on to almost thirty grandchildren!

AH: Yes, twenty-nine under ten.

NC: Isn’t that amazing?

Wow, what a privilege to go out there!

AH:  Yes, and they are fulfilling prophecy. They are literally fulfilling prophecy.

They shared with us a story about when they had first got there. It’s not easy for believers to come into Israel, which I didn’t realize.

I was taken back by that because I just assumed it was like any other country but no. They said the Jewish people look at Christians and they lump them all in one category and relate to them as Catholic or Hitler-lovers because Hitler claimed Jesus, which is ridiculous because there was no love in his heart.

Anyway, when they first got there, they had a hater, someone who really just didn’t want them up there. They took a photo of Mr. Waller and printed it and put it on bus stops all over their city and the country saying. “Get rid of him.”

They thankfully have a rabbi who just loves them. He really loves them. He knows they are Christians; he knows that they are believers.

The Waller’s have not held that back, but they respect their culture and they embrace the Jewish life and culture, not out of law and duty but out of respect and because they love the traditions.

It’s just so neat. We got to hear so many stories and they took us around. Whenever they would stop and tell us something about a view, they would take their Bibles out, and it was literally like you were in Bible school again when you were a little child.

He would say, “Do you remember the story of when Abraham and how he went to sacrifice his son Isaac? Well guess what, it’s right there!”

I can’t remember if it was Mrs. Waller or one of the other families we stayed with, but one of them said to me, “Israel is like going and having the Bible going from black and white to color.”

It’s so true. It just came off the pages. The stuff that we’ve read but didn’t understand, you could literally see these locations.

The Waller’s are amazing. They are really living it, but they are so humble, even though they are doing amazing things. They are planting, harvesting, and pruning hundreds of vineyards for these Jewish people, just volunteering their time, but showing them love.

NC: They have had people come to help them in the harvest from thirty different countries of the world. It’s just something you can do to serve the Lord.

AH: They have a discipleship program, too. You can send your daughters, or your sons and they will basically house and feed them and put them to work.

In fact, Cherish, Sam and Serene’s daughter, came back home and she has decided that in the summer she’s going back. She’s on fire and she’s excited.

NC: That is so cool. Yes, it is called “Daughters of Zion” and then they have one called, “Sons of Zion.” I would encourage you to go to their website. It is just www.hayovel.com and you will see it all there.

You will see what they are doing. You will see the opportunities for families to go and help. You will see the opportunities to send your young people. Some of you have older young people that are looking for something to do to serve the Lord. There are many areas where we can serve the Lord, but this is one way.

AH: A lot of people say, “Don’t go to the West Bank.” It is safe. I felt just as safe there as I do in my own town.

Of course there is stuff that goes on, but they know the areas not to go to. The area they are at you will feel so safe. I would send my daughter any day.

They have a lot of rules to where they keep the young people safe because they are taking care of someone’s eighteen-year-old for three months.

You don’t even have to go for three months. They have a day program.

Sam and Daniel got up at 5:30 in the morning one day and they went to men’s prayer and then they put them to work. They went out on the field and they pruned to where their hands were falling off at night.

Even if you want to come as a family, they have accommodations where they will put you up.

That’s what they want. We were leaving and we said to them, “How can we support you?”

We were thinking more financially but he said to Sam, “Oh, I don’t want your money.”

I mean of course they could use the money, but he said, “I want your time. I want you. I want you to send your children.”

That’s what they want because they have more work than they have helpers.

NC: The more people they get, the more they can help those farmers and they have to possess the land.

You see, usually, ladies, we’re talking about marriage or we’re talking about motherhood but here today we are talking about Israel.

But this also affects us as families because I believe that we must be FAMILIES THAT LOVE ISRAEL. We need to be families that have Israel upon our hearts and therefore we’re praying for Israel.

I know a lot of young people, young people who even come into this home. They don’t know one thing about Israel and yet they have been brought up in Christian homes. We shouldn’t allow our children to grow up in our Christian homes without understanding about Israel; without knowing God’s purposes for Israel; without having a heart for Israel.

Therefore if we know about it, and we know God’s heart, and then we get His heart in our heart we’ll be praying for Israel.

I think that’s a big thing. That’s somewhere where we can start and where we can pray for Israel.

I’ve often talked to you about how we have prayer boxes in our home. At our Family Devotions we have our Family Prayer Box but then we have nine different prayer boxes. One of them is our Praying for Israel Prayer Box.

Just last night we were praying out of that box and I have cards in it all about different areas and needs to pray for Israel. Actually I picked out just a few of them this morning. I’m not going to pick out the ones which have the needs for Israel, which are so many.

But I also have some of the cards that just have a Scripture out of the Word of God, which we can pray or be reminded to pray.

I’m just picking up this one here, Isaiah 62:6-7: “I have set watchmen upon thy walls, O Jerusalem, which shall never hold their peace day nor night: ye that make mention of the Lord [which means we are reminders to the Lord], keep not silence, and give him no rest, till he establish, and till he make Jerusalem a praise in the earth.”

That is the Word of the Lord and that’s a Scripture to all of us and to us as families. When we gather each day to read the Word and pray together that we remember to pray for Israel. We’re to be watchmen on the walls and we’re not to give God rest. We’ve just got to, as it says, give Him no rest and keep not silent.

Oh goodness me, I think some families have never opened their mouths to pray for Israel in their lives and here the Scripture says, “KEEP NOT SILENT.”

We are commanded to pray for Israel.

I was just thinking of when they came into the land. We talked about how you stayed on the top of Mount Blessing.

Let me give you the reference to Mount Blessing. It is Deuteronomy 11:29: “And it shall come to pass, when the Lord thy God hath brought thee in unto the land whither thou goest to possess it, that thou shalt put the blessing upon mount Gerizim, and the curse upon mount Ebal.”

Again it tells us about that in Deuteronomy 27:11-13. It is amazing!

Now, Allison, we’ve got your husband, Daniel, here, too, and we’re going to get him to speak but we’re running out of time and we’ll do it next session.

But Daniel was telling me how he couldn’t believe that right there where Joshua brought the children of Israel in and they all had to stand in that valley between those two mountains, the Mount of Blessing and the Mount of Cursing. Half the tribes of Israel had to stand on the Mount of Blessing (Mount Gerizim) and half on the Mount of Cursing (Mount Ebal) and Joshua read all the blessings and all the curses.

They had to all stand there with their children, with their little ones, with their toddlers, and holding their babies.  Every person had to hear the blessings and the curses before they went in to conquer the land because all the blessings came if they kept His commandments.

He said, “If you keep My commandments I will . . .” and He gave all the blessings. You can read them in Deuteronomy 28.

But Daniel was telling me how, it’s unbelievable! The acoustics are so incredible.

You think, “How can you read them, and anybody hear?”

But apparently Daniel was saying you could be up the mountain somewhere and you could hear people talking in Shechem, which is where it is. The acoustics are just so amazing.

So way back there, God prophesied and told them that this is where you will do it because God knew this was the best place for the acoustics. Isn’t that incredible?

AH: He had all the details taken care of.

NC: But I wonder, out there on the West Bank you saw a lot of amazing things. Maybe we do just have time for Daniel.

Daniel, Alison’s husband, was telling me how out there in the West Bank you see things that tourists don’t see. He was telling me about the UN and all the camps round about it. Tell us about it.

Daniel Hartman: As we were standing there looking down on the Mount of Blessing to the city of Shechem it looked like a nice town. Then you see right by the UN they have a refugee camp that looks like it’s a third world country.

We were talking about it and asking Joshua Waller and he said, basically it is just a photo-op. They only have a person or two living in there as best you could tell. There is no movement or cars.

They pull all of the Palestinians or Muslims or whatever they are called to basically make it look like it’s squalor, and basically show the nations and have this heavy deception as is expected for the media.

Of course I personally don’t know of anything good that comes out the UN.

It is personally sad to see how the whole world is being manipulated with this propaganda over lies about how they are in squalor. Then right next to this third world make-shift city they have beautiful buildings that the nations have poured in billions and billions of dollars that no one is even living in.

They build them so fast. They were telling me about a city where they built it so fast that they didn’t even plan to put sewage in it. No one could live in it because they didn’t have any facilities for sewage.

Basically Israel has sections A, B, and C. It is all state property. What they have happening is whoever comes to possess the land first are the ones that get it. So the countries of the world that hate Israel, that hate Hebrews, are paying all these cities that are built and no one is living in them. It is just the most bizarre thing.

As you’re standing on these mountains looking down you see across the valley where Abraham came into the land first and was promised the land by God.

Then you see the place where Joshua addressed the whole nation of Israel, six tribes on the Mount of Blessing and six tribes on the Mount of Cursing. You see where Joshua built the altar to sacrifice to God right there.

You see the place where Joseph was thrown into the cave and given and sold into slavery to Egypt.

You see Joseph’s tomb sitting right there.

Then you see Jacob’s field as you’re looking down.

Then you see Jacob’s well and right next to it is this UN debauchery. I don’t know how else to say it, just with the lies and the propaganda, and how everything is being manipulated.

Nancy, if you don’t mind, I am going to read this really quick and then I’ll be done.

It is Zechariah 8 and of all verses I was actually listening to this on the way on the flight in.

Me going to the land, I knew I needed to go there, but I didn’t really understand how to connect and how powerful it would be.

This is what I read as I came in, Zechariah 8:1-7 in the International Standard Version: “This is this message from the Lord of the Heavenly Armies: “This is what the Lord of the Heavenly Armies says: ‘I’m greatly jealous about Zion [which is Jerusalem], and that makes me furious about her.’”

He is just jealous about Jerusalem with a great love.

“This is what the Lord says: ‘I will return to Zion and I will live in the midst of Jerusalem. And Jerusalem will be called, “The City of Truth” and the mountain of the Lord of the Heavenly Armies will be called, “The Holy Mountain”.’”

This is where Christ is going to reign. This is where we’re grafted in as Christians, is Jerusalem.

Verse 4 says: “This is what the Lord of the Heavenly Armies says: ‘There will yet be old men and old women sitting in the parks of Jerusalem . . ..”

This is talking about peace. There is not peace there right now.

Literally, we were talking to the missionary guy that we were staying with. His son is in the IDF and three Muslims walked by and just spit on his feet.

If you are a tourist they don’t mess with you because that is money coming in, but if you’re a Hebrew that’s what is going on, especially if you’re in the IDF because they don’t allow any Muslims in their army.

So: “In the parks of Jerusalem, each one of them holding canes in their hands due to their old age [meaning they lived a long life]! The city parks will be filled with boys and girls. They will play in the city’s open parks.’ “This is what the Lord of the Heavenly Armies says [these are the armies, the Leader of God’s army and the role that He’s putting on in place]: ‘It may seem impossible to the survivors of this people, but is it impossible for me?’ declares the Lord of the Heavenly Armies. “This is what the Lord of the Heavenly Armies says: ‘Look! After having saved my people from the land of the east and from the land of the west, I will also bring them back to live in the midst of Jerusalem. They will be my people and I will truly be their righteous God.’”

NC: Yes, amen.

Well time has gone. I think we’re going to have to talk in another session because there’s more to talk about Israel.

Daniel, I love to pray at the end of each of our podcasts. I wonder if you could pray today and ask the Lord to open all of our hearts more and more to truly understand all of God’s purposes for Israel?

DH: “Dear Lord, Thank You for this time that we were able to go to this land, Your land, to walk in Your city that You will reign from, God. Thank You for continually opening my eyes to how precious Israel is to You, God.

“Lord God, we just pray that the people there would turn to You, God; that they would turn from their works-based religion and see You, the true Messiah, as You will stand and come down that Mount of Olives, God, and rule and reign forever

“I know they will see You and You’ll be revealing Yourself to them and they will turn to You then, God, but I pray for these people.

“I pray for the peace of Jerusalem, God, that all these people of these lands, God, and the world, would just see peace in Jerusalem; that they would see peace and not the division and that the division would stop in the name of Jesus. Amen.”