Podcast 10 – ARE YOU RAISING YOUR CHILDREN TO SPEAK?

Allison Hartman and her 19-year-old daughter, Makenna, speak with me on this podcast. Allison shares how she and her husband managed to get out of debt and build a debt-free home. Makenna speaks about her life in a big family, and how she has built strong convictions into her life.

We talk about raising children to speak in the gates. Dear mothers, we are not only feeding and clothing our children. We have a huge task raising them to speak— speak clearly, speak with conviction, and speak with boldness, who will one day be ready to speak with the enemies in the gates! Children who will know how to stand when they face the enemy, and “having done all, to stand” (Ephesians 6:13). Be inspired as you listen.

Announcer: Welcome to the podcast FROM OUR HOME TO YOURS w/ Nancy Campbell, founder, and publisher of Above Rubies.

Nancy Campbell: Good to be with you again. I have Allison Hartman with me again. We've still got more to talk about. Now, Allison, I'd love you to tell the ladies about your home now. You're debt-free now, aren't you?

Allison Hartman: We are.

Nancy: Yes, well, how did you get to that? Was it hard work?

Allison: It was a lot of hard work, and a lot of sacrifice. When we had a house mortgage, my husband really, really desired to pay that off as quickly as possible. He had read a book by Dave Ramsey talking about not being a slave to debt. So we went ahead and paid our mortgage off within about 11 years.

Nancy: Yes, how did you do that? Well, it's so easy to just . . . I mean, usually life just takes all your money. How did you pay it off?

Allison: Well, you only have two options in life. You can either make more, or spend less, and we kind of try to do both. We don't spend money on things that a lot of people spend money on. There's such a fallacy that children, each child you have, you know, you can't afford more. That's not true. That's not what people spend money on.

People spend money on things that they think that they need, or someone else has, that they need. If they don't have the money for it, they just put it on a card, or go into debt or get a loan for it. I think being out of debt is a mentality. It's a decision you have to make. We were talking this morning in family devotions how sometimes you don't feel like doing certain things. Even in marriage, or as a mom, you don't feel like sometimes getting up and doing the right thing.

The same thing with spending money. So many people spend money out of emotion. They just kinda justify it away, but for us, the end result was way more important than having the niceties in this world. We don't ever, don't ever, buy anything new, even to this day.

I think we will continue, no matter how much money we do or don't have, we will still, and we get kind of teased with our family about this, but we are completely okay with buying things at garage sales. Almost everything we own is from a garage sale or thrift store. It's so fun, and you get ten cents on the dollar.

But again, so when we paid our house off, then we wanted to build, obviously because our house was quite small for having six children in it. So, we ended up buying some land and building on that land. That land had a little teeny tiny house on it. We decided to sell our house that was paid for and use that money to build our house debt-free.

We were able to do it. We did it in two years, definitely with a sacrifice. We lived. I had my seventh child there, so we had seven children in about 800 square feet. We had one tiny bathroom that had pretty rough plumbing, and that kind of thing.

But it's so funny, because we made so many memories in that house. I don't think any of my children look back and think we were really missing out on anything. We had a great yard and we had lots of entertainment going on. But, because we did that . . .

Nancy: You know, children don't really care whether you live in some big, flash, palatial home, or in a very humble home. Children don't care about it.

Allison: They don't.

Nancy: In fact, they don't even want a bedroom of their own. Oh goodness, today, in our western culture, oh, we can't have too many children because they want their own bedroom. Well, children hate their own bedrooms. It may be different when they grow older, or if they're being brought up in a two-child family, and that's how they're being catered to.

Most children love company. Yes, they love their brothers and sisters. They want to be with them. They're so much happier! Some parents have a terrible time sending their children to bed because they're going to some lonely room on their own and they don't want to do that. It's so much easier if they're going with a whole pile of other children. They love it! It's so great.

Allison: Yes, absolutely. I agree. So when we finally built our house, then we were able to rent out that little house that we were in, so that provides a little income. But again, when we started our business, a lot of people even encouraged us to get a loan, so that you can buy the best equipment.

We decided as a couple, that's not what we were gonna do. So thankfully we still had income coming Daniel, he used to remodel houses, so he continued doing that while we started our business. We didn't just quit, but we would do a job, and then use that money to go buy a light box. Then we would do another job, and we would buy another camera. And so now we pretty much have the best of the best equipment.

Everything is ours. We own it. No one can take it from us, we don't pay interest on it. We're passing down this concept to our children that is so valuable. If I could get each of them to start their marriages with that concept, that mindset, you know, just not to be a slave.

Now I know, I know. There's times where sometimes the car breaks down, and you really don't have the money. There's times where maybe it's necessary, but for the most part, if you could use that rule of thumb to not buy it, unless you have it, then you're going to be way better off for it.

Nancy: Absolutely. Yes. So, and now with your home, you just did each bit as you were able to afford it?

Allison: We did, we did, and it was frustrating. I mean, there were days where I thought, “Oh, let's just take a loan and finish it,” but we didn't. And my husband said, “Yes, we are not going to.” And I'm glad, so glad that I let him. That was his dream, to build a house himself, debt-free. We had a few helpers. We hired out sheet rock, and we did it ICF (insulating concrete forms). So we, of course, had to hire people to do the ICF part of it.

But for the most part, the plumbing, the electrical, the HVAC, most of it we did ourselves, which is so special and weird. You know, you can definitely take pride in your house, and that you did it all yourself.

Nancy: Oh, wonderful. Oh, it's been just so great having you on this podcast. More, of course, is just having you and your whole family with us this last week. It's just been such a joy, such a joy to have their ten children in our home, because they're all just so amazing. So helpful, so polite. They get” stuck in,” and help wherever they can.

Now I think what we'll do is, we'll interview Makenna. Makenna is Allison's oldest daughter. She is 19 years of age, and I've had to haul her off the volleyball court, because that's where they've all been living this last week. Anyway, we're going to talk to Makenna.

I think it's lovely to talk to young people who have such a heart for God, and know where they're going, and just want to walk in truth. Makenna's one of those young women.

Nancy: Now, Makenna, we have often talked together. Because you've been around so many young people, and you went to college for a while, you notice the mindset of young people today, not even in the secular world, but even in the homeschooling world. So maybe you could share a few of your thoughts about these things.

Makenna Hartman: Yes, I would say I've encountered many, just a couple of my friends, and people that I've had conversations with, Christians at that, and praying Christians that love the Lord so much. But they go, and they say, “Oh, I don't want any children,” or “Oh, I only want two.”

Certain things that they're not letting God have full control of. It saddens my heart that even Christians would have that mindset. So, I know for me, that I don't have any children, and I'm not married, but that is something that's strong in my heart, to have the Lord completely . . . I'm like, give everything to the Lord. It definitely hurts me, and I want to talk about it, and share my ideas and thoughts about how it's not just what the secular world says, but Christ says that we should give everything to Him.

I've heard them saying, “Oh, I don't want, I only want two,” or “I'm getting fixed at two, I only want a boy and a girl.” But that's not ultimately our decision. The Lord has complete control over our womb. I think young people should definitely hear that from their parents. Instead of letting other children explain certain things to their children, I think that parents should have complete control over what their children believe.

Nancy: Yes. Now you're a young person in this world of social media today. How does that work in your life?

Makenna: Social media, I think, can be used for good, and for evil. Sometimes what I've seen, most are evil. It really saddens my heart, seeing Christian girls not think they're beautiful, and not think they're worth anything. Because their friends have posted a picture that they've sort of altered a little bit. That is really hard for me to see, that they don't have any self-worth in that aspect. So social media definitely destroys that.

But it also can be used for good. I've had many conversations on social media that have been beneficial and glorifying to God. It's definitely a way to interact with girls, and men, just being able to talk to each other without being face to face, and keeping up with friends and missionaries. That's very cool and neat.

But it also, the devil is using it to get to, especially, girls. Their self-esteem is lowered, because I guess they're viewing themselves as they should be something else. Really, they just should be glorifying God, who made them.

Nancy: So how much time do you spend?

Makenna: On social media? I try to do it as little as possible. I definitely am very . . . I know the average teenager is like, hours a day. I try to do it only at night, or if somebody personally texts me, I'll try to do that, and I just use it for family. I like seeing the missionaries, and seeing what they're doing, but I would limit it to about 30 minutes a day. No more than that.

Nancy: That's amazing. That's so wonderful. Does that take discipline for you, or you know, it's easy?

Makenna: No, it takes discipline. It's very hard, because social media has developed. They're very cunning in the way that they present it. You can just keep going, and going, and going, and you can waste. I wasted hours at one point! I felt guilty about it. I'm like, I'm not doing this again.

I would just say that desire of, I want to stay pure, and I want to stay controlled in what I'm doing. Because there are so many things that you can see on there, and you can waste your time on. You don't have any control over it, once you've gone far enough. So you just need to be really in control of your mind.

Nancy: Yes, that's such an amazing thing. Of course, as we learn to discipline ourselves in this area, it helps you in disciplining in every area of life, doesn't it? So what are your plans at this moment for life?

Makenna: Well, I have been, sort of an adventurer, going on different businesses that I've gone through. I first started with the chocolate business, but I had to keep going on school, so I had to end that. But right now I'm refinishing furniture. I find pieces of furniture, fix them up, and I resell them.

I'm on Craigslist, and on Facebook, so I use social media actually as a business as well. I use that, and then I'm also helping my parents in their photography business. And then I'm also ISR (Infant Swimming Resource), I'm trying to become an instructor. I'm praying about that, and sort of seeking what I should be doing now.

Nancy: That's so great. It's lovely to hear a young person speak out of the conviction of her heart. Don't you love that? I love that Scripture in Psalm 127, which I know you all know. It's good to read it again, because it's one of the family Psalms.

Psalm 127:3: “Lo, children are an heritage of the Lord. And the fruit of the womb is his reward. As arrows in the hand of a mighty man are children of the youth. Happy is the man that has his quiver full of them. They shall not be ashamed, but they shall speak with the enemies in the gate.”

I love that. I think often we forget what we're really seeking to do. We are training children who will grow up to be those who will speak God's truth. Did you notice that word “speak”? There it is: “They shall speak with the enemies in the gate.”

We have so many liberal enemies in our gates today. The gates speak of the places where the laws are made, the governing places, in the White House and Congress and Senate, and in the governing places of each city, and even each little town. There are all people who are sitting in those gates.

How we long to get more and more Godly young men and women. Mostly men, because as women get older, mostly they will be embracing family, and it's pretty difficult to do a job like that, and embrace your family at the same time. But there are seasons of life, of course, and older women may venture into this area. But we've got to get our young people into the gates, who will speak.

Now, they may not get into the gates immediately, but they can learn to speak, just as Makenna is speaking her heart. And she's not afraid when she's talking with other young people, even if they don't agree with her, just speaking her heart and holding fast to her convictions. So be encouraged today, dear ladies, as you are training your children, and as you are enjoying them.

Did you notice also that it says: “happy is the man.” When it's talking about the man in this Scripture, it's actually a mighty warrior. God intends husbands and fathers to be mighty warriors in His Kingdom. As they lead their families, they're not meant to be wimps. They're meant to be mighty warriors.

Of course, although it says the man will be so happy, “the mighty warriors,” they're so happy if they've got their quivers full, because it's all in the context of war. When you go out to war, people say, “Oh, how many children should you have in your quiver?”

I've heard people say, well, you know, you could have five arrows in your quiver maybe, but quivers are all of different sizes. God gives sovereignly to families different quivers. Some he gives a small quiver, to others bigger quivers. But whatever quiver God gives, we've got to fill that quiver, and be open to the children God wants to put in that quiver.

But I think the main thing we have to keep in our heart is that, when we go out to war, when a mighty warrior goes out to war, he wants as many arrows in his quiver as he can get. Because when he's facing the enemy, he wants to have every arrow that he can possibly have to pull out of his quiver to attack the enemy.

So this is how God reveals the family. Every child is another arrow that we are sharpening, and we are polishing. We're getting them ready to be able to proclaim God's truth and proclaim His ways in the land. It is a powerful thing, and you're getting them ready to speak.

Now when we're talking about speaking, another very important thing, too, is we get used to the way our children speak. We can understand them, we hear them all the time. So we know what they're talking about, but a lot of children don't speak clearly. A lot of young people don't speak clearly.

Now I'm getting a little older. I never say I'm old, because I feel so young. But as I'm just getting a little older, I find it a little more hard to hear a lot of young people today. Now, some of it could be the fault of my ears, But I know it's not all the fault of my ears, because they mumble, they talk so quickly, and they just muh-buh-buh-buh, and I truly don't know what they're talking about.

I believe we should train our children to speak clearly. If they're not speaking clearly, get them to say it again, clearly! I believe a lot of the success of our children, as they grow older, is the way they speak. As they go out into the world, people are going to perceive who they are by the way they speak, if they speak clearly, if they speak knowledgeably. So we're training our children how to speak clearly.

We're training them with Godly knowledge, and good knowledge, and that which will enable them to speak amongst people, even those who are in the gates. They can speak with anyone. They can speak with those who are poor, and those who are from the humble places in society. They're not too mighty and proud to speak to them, to show them love, to bring the Gospel to them.

But they are also prepared to speak to those who are in the gates, and those who may have their master's degrees. We can prepare our children with good knowledge, Bible knowledge, good conservative political knowledge and understanding. So they understand how life works, how a country should work. They can speak knowledgeably, and they will also have understanding of the times.

I love the description of the tribe of Issachar. It said the tribe of Issachar, one of the Twelve Tribes of Israel, that they “had understanding of the times, to know what Israel ought to do” (1 Chronicles 12:32). Don't you like that? Now, that's something we are training our children for.

We are preparing them to have understanding of the times, the times we're living in now, 2018, to understand these times, to understand what's going on, to understand politically, and to have God-knowledge, to have His Word. Because He is the ultimate Truth, and people can learn all the things they want at colleges, but it's nothing compared to God's Truth.

God laughs at the wisdom of men. The wisdom of men is foolishness in God's eyes. His Truth is eternal. His Truth is the only true Wisdom. We've got to fill our children with His Truth.

There comes a day when they are going out into this world, and they will speak like Makenna has been speaking to you today. Speak, and they will speak to the young people, they'll speak to whoever they meet. They won't be ashamed to share their convictions, and to share the truth, the real truth, God's Truth.

I think this is another little thing that parents often are concerned about, when we think about homeschooling, I get some people who say, “Oh, if you're homeschooling, you're just sheltering your children. And I send my children into the school to be witnesses.”

Well, that sounds so good, but sadly, most often those children are not witnesses. Sometimes they may be, but mostly they get witnessed to. They get, what would be the word? Brainwashed. They get their brains filled with the things that are not Godly. They get their brains filled with liberalism and socialism.

In the public school today, we are now facing so much of the gender neutral teaching, and the bringing in even of the gay agenda, and the bringing in even of Islamic culture. All this is coming into our public schools. Our precious children go there for so many hours a day to be indoctrinated, and to be brainwashed.

No, we have the opportunity to pour into them real true Godly knowledge, and wisdom from God and from His Word. They are going to be ready, because we're not going to keep them sheltered forever. Yes, we are going to keep them sheltered when they're young, because they're not ready yet to go out.

They are too vulnerable. They can be too infiltrated with things that, wow, they don't get them out of their brains. They're never going to be able to know true Truth. But we don't hibernate our children forever. No, we are training them to send them out. We are training them to send them out into this world to impact this world for God.

But we're going to get them ready first, because as the Bible says, that Jesus Himself said, He said, “I send you forth as lambs among wolves” (Luke 10:3). Now, what do wolves do? They tear lambs to pieces. They'll tear them to bits.

There'll come a time when our precious young people will have to go out and face things in this world. Even as they speak the truth, they can have those who will be trying to tear them to bits. But they can stand their ground if they are prepared, if they're filled with Truth, if they're filled with God's Word. If they know, and they have the boldness to speak, speak, speak. This is what we're preparing them to do: to speak, to get them ready, so that when they go out and face the wolves, they can do it.

So be encouraged today, dear mothers. You are doing the greatest job in this whole nation. Oh my. You are preparing children to go out, and to speak and proclaim truth. And you are determining the future of this nation. There is no greater career than what you are doing. Nothing. Nothing is greater than preparing children.

Now, I've still got Allison here in the room. She is preparing ten children, and hoping the Lord will give her some more. She's got Makenna prepared and ready to go out. Anything more you want to say, Makenna or Allison, that you'd love to say to the ladies?

By the way, ladies, were not in our normal podcast room today. I hope this is going to be clear and you're going to hear it, because Arden who does the podcast, all of a sudden, he had to go to hospital because of an infection in his PICC. So, we are also missing him today.

Allison: We were out at a park one day, and we saw some children from a school. They had these shirts on, and the shirt said,  “Follow” and then on the back it said, “the leader.” Their whole school motto was to teach these children to follow the leader. I just looked at mine, and I thought, “No, I don't want to teach my children to follow the leader. I want to teach my children to be the leader. “

Nancy: Amen! Don't you love that?

Allison: We're gonna raise world-changers, and I'm not going to be able to do it if they're all running around and going here and there with their friends. There's nothing wrong with having friends, but be the house that all their friends come to. Let your children be the leaders and the ones that other children want to follow. Of course, you want to be instilling in them good things, so that they are leading other children to things that are Godly, and not leading them to things that they shouldn't be doing, or looking at.

I am so encouraged this past week to be able to sit in y'alls home. You know, I've been to many retreats where you get up and talk about having family devotions, but we've actually got to sit at the meal table and watch Mr. Colin. Even if he's not feeling well, or he's tired, he still just continues to stay steady with the family devotions.

He has been such an encouragement to Daniel to take that role. Sometimes it's hard when you're raising a family, to really practice what you've been preaching. And every time I come here, I think, “We can do this, because the fruit's worth it.”

Nancy: Yes. I think sometimes we had about 16 people squashed around the table while you’ve been here.

Allison: And they loved it! They loved it.

Makenna: I would say that, just being a part of a big family, I can see the benefits of what my parents have instilled in me, and what my parents have done. So, if you are a mother with little children, you can see the end result.

I would say that one thing that my parents have always said, and Miss Nancy has said, is that you're not training children, you're training leaders. You're training children to go out to the world, and you don't want to force them to go out until they're ready. But you'll know when they're ready.

I think the greatest thing that my dad's ever done, is he just has conversations with us. And he asks us what we believe. He is wanting us to have an opinion, and he's wanting us to have . . . We debate, we debate, we love having our own opinions, but that's training us to go out and fight for what we believe is right.

And I think some people, they might be pacifists, and they don't like to get into a quarrel sometimes. But I know my family, we have something we strongly believe in, and my dad has taught us to fight for what we believe, even as young children.

Sometimes it gets crazy. My dad and I have had wonderful, very long conversations about politics and religion. Just being able to go to my dad and say, “Hey, this Scripture says this, and I'm not really sure what it is.” But he always gives me his opinion. And then he says, “Go, you need to read the Scriptures, and you need to find out what you believe, rather than just listening to me.”

I think that's probably the greatest thing that my parents have done, training us to be leaders, and just giving us the responsibility that can grow us as an accomplished adult.

Allison: One thing Daniel says all the time, and probably one of his favorite sayings is, “Ideas have consequences.” What you put in, you will get out at some point. It's so important to make sure that the ideas that you're putting in your children's heads, or ideas other people are putting in their heads, are ideas that you want them to hear. Because it will shape who they are.

Think about little things that I've picked up along the way, good and bad. Oh, it's amazing. I mean, just the size of our family, or what we've done with our family, is just a little idea that you planted in me years ago at a Ladies' Retreat. Had I not gone to that? It's just amazing how we can really shape our children by putting good ideas in their heads.

Nancy: Absolutely. And this is why I love the family meal table, because it's the time when we are together as a family. You have other times throughout the day, but sometimes you're not altogether. The family mealtime is somehow, food brings us together, because we all want to eat.

Allison: And you're a wonderful cook, a wonderful cook!

Nancy: Oh, thank you. Well, I love the fact that you were talking about debating. At our table, especially when we were raising our children, I would bring a question, or a subject to talk about at the table from the Scriptures, or political, or geographical, or just every subject on earth. So then we would begin to debate and discuss.

But I guess it really was a little bit of debating, true, because every one of our children were always very opinionated, and they all wanted to say their opinions. Colin would have to be the umpire. Sometimes I've seen them get up on their chair, waving their fingers, to get across their belief in what they believed about the Scripture, what they believed about this subject. It was so exciting, and so wonderful, and nobody wanted to miss the family meal table.

It was where they could talk out their ideas, and get them straightened out if they were wrong, but enforced if they were right. So, we need to give our families these opportunities for this dialogue together, and discussing, or perhaps, even debating.

Well, may the Lord bless you again, my dear precious mothers. Let me pray for you.

“Dear Father, we thank You that we can have these beautiful opportunities to talk about family, and about Your ways. I pray that You will give each mother a vision, a vision beyond what she's ever had before. To raise children who are leaders, not followers. To raise children who will influence others, rather than being influenced by the crowd. Lord God, to raise children who will be strong in the Truth, and even when the Truth is attacked, that they will stand, and they will continue standing!

“Oh God, I pray that You will help all of us, as mothers and grandmothers, to become stronger in the Truth ourselves, and bolder in the Truth ourselves. That we will pass that onto our children, and we will raise children who will come forth to speak Truth in the gates of our cities, and of our land, and wherever they go.

“Oh God, I ask Your anointing on every precious mother today. Strengthen her, and enlarge her vision. Fill her with the joy of God as she mothers and trains her children. In the Name of Jesus, Amen.”

P.S. Makenna was chosen to become an Instructor with ISR (Infant Swim Rescue) to teach babies 6 months – four years to self rescue. She is the youngest instructor who has ever been chosen. The people were so impressed with her.

P.P.S. You read of how Arden got an infection in his PICC. Praise the Lord, it healed. And more than that! After nearly three years, he now has a full healing from Hodgkin’s Lymphoma. We are all rejoicing, and he is looking great.