PODCAST TRANSCRIPT | EPISODE 218: The Four L’s of Raising Children, Part 2
LIFE TO THE FULL w/ Nancy Campbell
EPISODE 218: The Four L’s of Raising Children, Part 2
Today Michele and I chat together about teaching our children to LOVE TO LEARN. One of the secrets of learning is first learning to listen. We cannot learn unless we develop the art of listening. Come on in and listen for more ways to teach our children the secrets of learning.
Announcer: Welcome to the podcast, Life to The Full, with Nancy Campbell, founder and publisher of Above Rubies.
Nancy Campbell: Hello, ladies! Today I have Michele Schrum with me again. Hey, Michele, wasn’t it such a great prayer meeting last night?
Michele: Oh, my goodness! It was so wonderful! Even my 11-year-old, almost 11-year-old, was commenting on it. He’s just loving the prayer meetings.
Nancy: I know! Isn’t it great when children love prayer meetings? He was praying! My, he was praying up a storm, wasn’t he?
Michele: He was, and he had to jump in. There weren’t any breaks, so he jumped right in. I was so proud of him. [laughter]
Nancy: I know! We were really praying on the issue of what is happening in this nation. We were so concerned to hear of this break-in in President Trump’s private home. It’s so unbelievable what is happening in our country! That would only happen in a country that’s a dictatorship.
Oh my, we, as God’s people, do need to be praying, don’t we? It’s so blessed to be part of prayer meetings where we’re crying out to God for the nation. We are believing God is going to do great things.
Here we are again, today, to continue speaking about the four L’s. Michele and her husband Randy raised their children according to four words that start with “L.” Last week we talked about loving God, and how to woo our children to love God with all their heart. Today it’s another “L.” What is it, Michele?
Michele: It is the LOVE OF LEARNING.
Nancy: Oh, wow. That is so great, isn’t it? We’ll chat about that together today, because I think this is very important to remember in the educating of our children. It’s not just trying to teach them and get them through all their curriculum lessons. It’s giving them a love for learning because learning is for life. That’s what I believe about education. It’s not a certain number of years where people go to school, and then college, and that’s it. No, it’s learning every day of our lives. If we can put that passion in our children, well, that’s so great, isn’t it?
Michele: Oh, it’s so good. That love for learning for life, we love that. It reminds me of going to the grocery story, when the grocery store clerk asked my younger children what grade they’re in. They look at me with that blank homeschool look, like, “Grade?”
I’m like, “Oh, man. Just how much he . . . I think fourth grade, fourth grade’s good.” [laughter] Because it’s not about a number. It’s not about even the curriculum. It’s about the love of learning and being able to learn. A child that loves to learn can learn their whole life.
Nancy: Yes, absolutely. Knowledge is important. I love that Scripture in Proverb 19:2 where it says: “That the soul be without knowledge, it is not good.” God wants us to pursue knowledge because He is the Author of all knowledge. In fact, in Colossians 2:3, it says: “All the treasures of wisdom and knowledge are hidden in Him.”
Oh, the greatest knowledge that we will ever have is the knowledge of God. Of course, we are to pursue all different avenues of knowledge. But I do believe that we always need to keep in mind that the greatest knowledge is the knowledge of God. To teach our children who God is, and to know Him, oh, I think that’s the greatest thing that they can ever do.
In fact, one time, when our children were growing, I got this idea that as I was reading the Word each day, I would look out for the different names of God. God has so many different names. Not one name can describe Him for He actually surpasses all the names that are given to Him.
As I would write each name down, then, as I came across another Scripture, I’d write that Scripture under that name. I had as the heading, “The Name of God.” OK, perhaps it’s “Jehovah Jireh, the Lord our Provider.” Well, maybe the “Lord God of Hosts,” which means, “The Lord of the Armies of Heaven.” That name occurs many, many times in the Word of God. Or “God, Who is Our Shepherd.” The list goes on and on.
I had at the top of the page one of the names of God as I’d find it in the Word. As I’d keep reading, from day to day, I’d find new Scriptures and put in under that name until I had this whole book of all the Scriptures revealing the Names of God. I could take them and use them in our family devotion time and read these Scriptures to our children so they could get to know God in this attribute. I think that’s a very important thing, that our children begin to know God, to know Him, all His different attributes.
I think many people today, because they haven’t pursued the knowledge of God, and by the way, have you ever read that book by A. W. Tozer, The Knowledge of the Holy? Oh, have you read it, Michele?
Michele: You know, my older daughters have read that book. I have not read it, but I’ve heard their description of the book and it sounds amazing.
Nancy: I would encourage everyone to get ahold of that book. You can get it off Amazon very cheaply. Anything by Tozer is so profound. But this book, oh, you’re just in awe as you read the different attributes of God. It’s so wonderful. If our children grow up not knowing the attributes of God, how will they know Him? They will end up creating a God of their own imagination.
I think that’s what many people do today. I believe many people in the church, they go to church, they sing hymns, and they go to worship God. But who are they worshipping? Are they worshipping the God of the Bible? Or a God that they have put in their own little box, who fits in their little lifestyle?
I remember one guy saying to me, we were talking about children, he said, “Well, you know, we could only afford three children. We weren’t able to have any more.” I said to him, “Well, is the God that you believe in, is He a God that can only provide for three children?” That’s an interesting question, because most people in the church today only believe God can provide for even only two children! That’s the God they have put in their little box! This little, wee God!
But no, our God is great! Our God owns the cattle on a thousand hills! Our God has promised to provide for every child that He gives. Our God is a big God! He is the God of provision, even when we can see no provision. We have got to begin to know Who our God is. We can take our children through all their lessons, but if they come out of our homes and they don’t know God, what have we been doing?
Michele: Absolutely. That’s why last week No. 1 was to LOVE THE LORD. But listen to this in Proverbs 18:15: “An intelligent heart acquires knowledge, and the ear of the wise seeks knowledge.” As we teach our children to love the Lord, and as we teach them to love learning, they’re going to be digging in and digging out who God is. As we teach them and train them, we can cultivate and develop a love for learning.
Nancy: Absolutely. Going back to last week, at the end of last week, we were talking about how important it is to teach our children how to hear. Unless we teach them how to listen, they won’t even learn how to obey.
But I also believe, unless we teach them the art of listening, they really won’t learn all that God wants them to know. I think one of the greatest ways of learning is listening, listening with the ear, and listening with the heart. We can listen to verbal instruction, and to even written instruction. We’re listening with the ear, and with the heart. It’s so important.
I find listening is a very powerful thing. It’s something we really have to cultivate. Even in our daily morning and evening family devotions that we have in our home and my husband reads the Word to us, because I want to listen with all my heart, I start off listening, but no, I have to confess, there are times when I will even get into a bit of a dream!
Oh, and I get way off in something and my husband will ask a question. I have to say, “Oh, Darling, can you read that again? Please say that again?” He’ll say, “Have you been dreaming?” If I can do that, when I have such a heart to listen, what about our children? They can easily get into a dream.
We have learned along the way, my husband and I, that it’s important not just to read the Word to our children. We have got to do it in a way that keeps their ears attentive so that they are not getting into a dream, but they are being interactive. We’re keeping them on their toes.
My husband will do lots of different things. Sometimes he will be reading, and he’ll read the wrong word, totally opposite to what the Bible says. If nobody even interrupts or says something, he knows we’re not listening!
“What did I read just then?” And he will read it again, with the wrong word. Oh, we’ll pick it out! “No, that’s not what the Bible says! It’s this word!” But you see, doing that, it keeps us listening. Actually, it’s great too. He’ll get us all to say the right word, out loud! It gets it into our very being.
Then he’ll stop, and he’ll ask questions. “What does this word mean? What do you think God is saying in this verse?” He’ll start the verse, and he’ll stop. “Who can finish it for me?” Hopefully we can finish the Scripture. We’re keeping on our toes.
In the Daily Light on the Daily Path, I didn’t write that. That’s a most wonderful book of compilation of Scriptures for every morning and every evening for the whole of the year, put together by the Bagster family over 150 years ago. These Scriptures are the same in every Daily Light. But I produced a copy, which has ideas for parents at the beginning of each chapter. It can help you to keep it exciting for your children and teach them the art of listening.
Can I take you ladies to a couple of Scriptures here? Mark 4:23-25: Jesus said, “If any man have ears to hear, let him hear.” Just because we have ears doesn’t mean to say we’re hearing! “And he said unto them, take heed what ye hear: with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you: and unto you that hear shall more be given. For he that hath, to him shall be given: and he that hath not, from him shall be taken away, even that which he hath.” Those are powerful words coming from the mouth of Jesus. It’s the opposite to how we would think, isn’t it?
Michele: Oh, absolutely! As we’re teaching our children to hear and to listen, you touched on Colin stopping and putting the wrong word in and getting the children and others around you involved. That’s the key to teaching them to learn.
We should, instead of lecturing our children, we should have discussions with our children. Then we can get them involved, or part of the conversation, or thinking for themselves. I allow my children to, not interrupt, but politely interrupt. I would say, raise your hand, if they have a question or comment that has to do with whatever we’re learning, or we’re reading about, which is great.
Benjamin Franklin once said:
“Tell me, and I forget.
Teach me, and I remember.
Involve me, and I learn.”
So getting our children involved, letting them ask the questions, having those discussions, is, to me, like the brain being hands-on.
Nancy: Amen! That is powerful. I love that quote, Michele. Well, I think it’s what you do, spend time discussing with your children rather than lecturing. That is so important. And you know the Scripture that I just read; we would think, our brains would think absolutely the opposite. In fact, this is how we think in our culture today, this entitlement culture that people who don’t have, well, we’ve got to give more to them.
Jesus is saying here, “OK, those who have, I’m going to give more! Those who don’t have, I’m going to take away!” Now, why would He say such a thing? I believe, because He knows that those who have, why do they have? Because they are seeking. They’re not going to waste what they have.
LOOK FOR REVELATION
It’s the same when we come to God’s Word. We can come to the Word of God. We can read it. I’ve heard people say, “I read the Bible, and I get nothing out of it.” But why? Because they’re not seeking Jesus in the Word. When we seek Him, when we listen with our heart . . . When I read the Word, I am looking, I am waiting for God to speak to me out of every word, not just the whole verse. I am looking even at every word! Because every word He speaks is life to me. I think because I come with this anticipation, and God knows my heart, I get revelations. I’m amazed at how understanding comes. God gives more.
We go over to Matthew 13:12. It’s similar, but we’re going to read this one too: “For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.” We put this into the context of learning. As we learn with listening ears, we will get more. We will learn more. If we just learn because we have to learn, and we’re not really taking it in, well, we really don’t get much, do we?
I think this is a good idea. When we come to our table, especially in the evening when there’s a little more time than in the other meals of the day, I love to bring subjects for discussion to the table. We did this as our children were growing up. It was the most exciting time. I would bring a subject. “What do you think about this, children?” Everybody would get going and sharing what they thought about it. There was real interaction.
I believe the table is the place, not just to eat some food, but to feed our bodies, to feed our souls with interaction and heart-to-heart conversation. Then, of course, the most important part of the meal of all, to feed our spirits and fill them with the Word of God. We dare not let our children ever leave the table without feeding their inner man. How can we feed their outer man, and forget the inner man? That’s even more important.
But I also find it’s important to have this discussion time, because if I don’t, when I come to the table, and I don’t bring anything specific to talk about, well, nobody talks about anything. It’s just a bit of shallow conversation. It’s not really very worthwhile.
But often, you can bring a question. A question I quite often love to ask, I used to do this, and I still often do it with folks around our table. “What was something that you learned today?” That’s a good question for homeschooling moms. “OK, children! Can you tell me just even one little thing you learned today?” And each one has to have a turn around the table, and Mommy and Daddy, because we should be learning something new every day too. That’s a challenge. I think, “Oh, my! Am I learning something new today?” That’s a challenge for me, everyday!
If our children are silent, help! What kind of schooling are we doing? Maybe we’re too eager to get them through all their lessons. They crammed so much into their brain that they haven’t remembered a thing! Sometimes it’s better to do it a little what the Bible says. “Little by little, here a little, there a little. Line upon line, precept upon precept” (Isaiah 28:10). It’s better to learn a little less but remember it! Also, when you articulate what you learned, that’s when you keep it. Isn’t that true?
Michele: Absolutely.
Nancy: You keep it.
Michele: Yes, that is so true. As we’re sitting around, like you said, Mom and Dad get their turn too. That’s setting the example for your children. You’re setting an example of your excitement to learn. You’re a lifelong learner, and you let your children see you trying to figure out new things, or you’re digging in deeper. You have questions too. Sometimes you need to figure it out together.
Just setting an example before your children is so huge, because like we said last week, children will mimic you. They will follow your example, whether it’s good or bad. So let’s make great things for them to mimic or to copy. What a great thing, to love to learn, and to love the Lord. New things.
Nancy: Oh, yes. You know, all our children learn so differently, don’t they? I guess you notice the difference, as I did when raising our children, between the boys and the girls. Often, girls are happy to sit at their desks and work on their books for hours and hours. I was like that as a child. I could sit for hours with my books. I was a book person. I loved books. I loved study.
Then, when my first child came along, he was a son. And, goodness, he didn’t have a love for books! He loved to listen to me read. I read to my children for hours. We used to read serial stories in the evenings. We’d read a few chapters each night, but they got longer and longer. “Don’t stop! Don’t stop now! Can we keep going?” Until I’m going to sleep reading! We read books and books and books together, and they loved that.
But he wasn’t one of these sitting at a desk for hours, studying. No, he wanted to get out and do things! And make things. He learned more like that. Not that he was any less intelligent than me. Far more! His intelligence was so far greater but learning in a different way.
Michele: Yes, I remember when my daughter, Calli and my son, Carter were younger. They’re grown now. You talk about different learning! My daughter Calli very rarely got punished, because she was my compliant child that loved to listen. But if she ever did, she usually got jumping jacks.
For my son Carter, he was like, “Why does she get to do jumping jacks?” He did jumping jacks as I was teaching him how to spell. You do a jumping jack for each letter. It was so funny to hear the difference in learning. Now Carter is almost 20. He grew to be my lover of books. He loved to sit down. He was very book smart.
My younger son, Niles was watching his brother when he was older, probably about 16, 17, really in the books and learning all about the financial world, accounting, things he loves in that realm. My son Niles, you could almost see the weight on his shoulders. He was like, “That’s what I get to look forward to??”
One day he came in from getting the mail. He was entranced. He was watching and looking at something. I’m like, “What is that, Niles?” He’s like, “Mom! Look at this! What is this?” He shows me and it was for a trade school for welding. I’m trying to explain what it is and he’s like, “People can learn from other people how to weld?”
This happens to be a trade school where you can go to learn how to weld. He looks at me and goes, “You mean, people go to college to learn how to weld?” I’m like, “Well, sort of. You can do trade school, or you can just learn from someone who’s really good at welding.” He’s like, that was it. He puts it down on the table and goes, “That’s it!” It was like the weight was lifted off his shoulders and his head came up. He skips off, he was so excited.
He didn’t necessarily have to have his nose in the books like his brother Carter because he’s actually a hands-on learner and he wants to be out there, exploring, and building stuff. That’s still to this day, he’s going to be 15 in a couple of weeks and he’s still that way. Hands-on learning.
He and his twin brother actually inherited a four-wheeler recently from my sister, a free four-wheeler. What’s better than that? There’s no such thing as a free four-wheeler! [laughter] But they knew it going in that it needed work. They have been, with a little bit of direction, because I want to make sure they’re using this opportunity to learn from, they have learned so much about mechanics. Not only that, they fix one problem, and they have the next problem they have to figure out.
They’ve also had to work to be able to earn money for all these parts and for repairs. So, it’s been great. They’ve been coming into their dad and asking questions when they get stuck and other people around here that maybe know some more information about mechanics than they do, so they are learning so much by fixing up this four-wheeler. It’s been fantastic.
Nancy: Oh, yes. And now, of course, you are beginning the building of your house up on the Hilltop. The boys are going to be all part of that. In fact, they’ve already been doing things, haven’t they?
Michele: Oh, absolutely. Just two weeks ago, they learned how to operate heavy equipment. They had a bulldozer up there and a skid steer. They were operating heavy equipment. I went up there, was taking some pictures of them, and sending them to some friends and family. It was amazing to see.
When you’re able to put your hands to the plow, literally, the learning that takes place, and the lessons! Even when I watched my son back over a tree that I wanted to keep. It was OK, it was all right. We can grow another tree. There’s lots of trees up there, actually. I knew it was OK. He’s gaining so much knowledge, and so many skills that will be used for life.
Nancy: It’s so wonderful. We do have to always be aware of how each child will learn. Of course, it’s easier, often, for boys growing up where they’re on the land and there is so much for them to get their hands on and learn.
I look at some of our grandchildren who have been driving cars and heavy equipment from the time they were little. Because it’s all around and they think it’s a natural normal thing, like walking down to the gate. What they can’t do! Oh, goodness me, it’s just amazing! They can do everything to do with building.
But what about, if you’re in the city, and you’ve got boys and they’re getting into their teens. Oh, wow, they’ve got all that testosterone, and you’ve got to find an outlet for it. But God has promised in Deuteronomy 28 that as we seek Him and obey His ways, that He will bless us in the city, and He will bless us in the country.
I believe that as you ask the Lord and wait on Him, He will show you avenues for your boys, even in the city. You can be aware of their gifts and find people who are, maybe, in that line of work, or whatever. They can learn from them, or they can get a little job, an extra job in that way. God will open those doors.
Michele: Absolutely. We lived in a suburb for a while, longer than we wanted to. But God opened doors for my boys, and my daughter. My daughter baked bread for a season and was selling bread out of the home. Actually, another homeschool mom asked her if she would teach, she could pay her to teach her daughter to bake bread. It was amazing, the opportunities.
But my son Carter, he’s the one who’s very book smart. When he was about 14, 15 years old, we found a gentleman, a Christian homeschool dad who owned a large apartment complex. He needed help, so he hired my son to come help with maintenance and lawn care. My son got hands-on experience in how to drywall, how to do some plumbing, electrical, just the dirty work of tearing out carpet and measuring for new carpet.
He learned so many skills. And even though it wasn’t his favorite thing to do, one, he got paid, so he liked that. And two, he gained so many skills. He’s going to be 20 and he looks back now, and he’s like, “You know, I didn’t love that every time I went, but I’m so thankful that I had that opportunity and experience. I know I’ll save a lot of money in the future, not having to pay a plumber necessarily, or an electrician.” It’s amazing.
Then my younger boys, when they were about 11 or 12, on their own, took initiative and started a lawn care business, The Lawn Care. They got a few yards in our neighborhood and started mowing. That turned into odd jobs that different neighbors needed done. Anything from helping move furniture to pulling weeds.
We even had an elderly gentleman in our neighborhood that we developed a great friendship with. We were able to pray with him and minister to him. It was amazing. He would have them come down and do simple things like pick up sticks. He liked the company more than anything.
Then during the winter, they would shovel snow and all these kinds of things. There are opportunities anywhere you live, for boys and girls. You can teach your children that the opportunities that they can learn from maybe are not their favorite. But at home, you can even teach your children to their interest. Things that are of interest to them make learning fun. You can’t make everything fun. Sometimes they just have to do math, and they discipline themselves.
However, I have learned, and they see my example, even things that I used to not like, like folding socks. I used to not like to fold socks. Now I love to fold socks. I had the revelation the Lord gave me one day. It’s like, if I didn’t have all these children, I wouldn’t have all these socks! Now, as I fold clothes, I always pray over my children whose clothes I’m folding.
Now they’re starting to do their own laundry. Actually, I haven’t had to do laundry because they’re using the laundromat. Me and my six-year-old, that’s her job. She helps me. But when we’re at home, they’re all starting to do their own laundry.
Everything is how we set our minds to it, how we persist in our hearts. Our children are watching us. We want them to be able to do this in their hearts before the Lord, and do everything they do as unto the Lord, and not unto man. Let’s set that example.
Nancy: Yes. And also, I think we teach our children too, by not doing everything for them. As our children are getting older and they want things, I don’t think we should go out and, “OK, you can have it.” As our children were growing up, we actually didn’t have the money to give them what they needed anyway.
Our boys, as they were growing, they wanted to get into go-carts, and then as they got older, into motocross. Then, of course, they wanted their cars. Well, we never bought cars for them. They had to save up and buy them themselves. I can remember our son going out early in the morning with paper runs. I can remember my eldest son going to the dump and finding stuff there. Then he’d go round the neighborhood selling it, to make money.
We didn’t give them what they wanted. They had to go out and find a way to earn the money to get the things they wanted, to do the things they wanted. In doing that, they learned that you don’t live this entitlement life. You don’t expect, “Oh, I should just get this, and it should come to me. No, I’ve got to work for it. I’ve got to earn it.” That’s something we have to learn, that that’s part of life.
My eldest son is a millionaire today. But he got there, not by anyone giving him one cent, but by going out there and getting it! I think we live in such an affluent ageand it’s such an affluent society. Children have grown up receiving and accepting and expecting so much! Whereas they need to learn how you’ve got to work for things and go out and get them if you want them.
Why does our time always go? We’ll look forward to next week, ladies, for the next “L.” We’ll keep it a secret until next week. You’ve got to come in and check it out.
And do tell other mothers about these podcasts, ladies! We do them just to encourage you, inspire you, and bless you. Every single mother needs this encouragement, so share the link with all your friends on Facebook, or any social media you have. Or tell other mothers when you’re talking to them. Tune in and listen. Let’s pray.
“Dear Father, we thank You that You’ve put within us the desire to learn and seek after knowledge. We pray You’ll give us that anointing to cultivate that in our own lives, and in the lives of all our children.
“Lord, above everything else, too, oh God, just to teach our precious children, Lord God, to learn of You, to know You, to teach them who You are.
“We pray that every child of every family listening today will have an encounter with You. Lord, that they’ll encounter You, that they’ll come to know You personally as their Savior, as their Lord, as the God Who is real, and Who is near, and Who wants to come and fill their lives. We ask this in the Precious Name of Jesus. Amen”.
Blessings from Nancy Campbell
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